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Author Topic: Proof that Paul Jones was a HELL of a heel
Martin Tori
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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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The Outlaw J.D. McKay (better?,,,)
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Great find, Martin.

Loved it...great looking punches from Paul Jones.

Thanks for posting this.

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bomberjacklord
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I always enjoyed Paul as a wrestler. I worked for him a few times and he was a really nice guy too!

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Still Tar Heel, Still William
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And 33 years later, #1 still insists that Steamboat turned on HIM! [Smile]

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I want you to put your hands together, and welcome him to the stage. Big round of applauds for Jackson Heights own, Mr. Randy Watson, YES! Randy Watson!

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plmathfoto
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Hell of a wrestler, hell of a heel, one of the worst managers of all time.

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REO Speeddealer
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quote:
Originally posted by plmathfoto:
Hell of a wrestler, hell of a heel, one of the worst managers of all time.

Jones as a manager wasn't great, but he's not even in the bottom 10.
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Calloway
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for MA fans, where does the Jones - Steamboat teaming rank. I remeber reading about Jones turning in the magazines and was wishing I could see MA tv.
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Martin Tori
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To a 10 year old mark, it was traumatizing. They were beloved as a tag team. After the epic feud with Flair & Valentine and the heartbreak of dropping the straps to Valentine & Von Raschke, this was the most shocking thing that could've happened.

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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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WickedNick1975
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quote:
Originally posted by Calloway:
for MA fans, where does the Jones - Steamboat teaming rank. I remeber reading about Jones turning in the magazines and was wishing I could see MA tv.

After George Scott took over, outside of the Andersons, most of the teams where really good singles who were put together to challenge the Andersons (which shows you how important they were). I'm referring to teams like Flair and Valentine, Jones and Steamboat, Flair and Studd, Studd and Patera, Bravo and Woods. So its hard to say, Jones and Steamboat were a great team though.

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Martin Tori
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I love Rich Landrum's commentary. He used to get the wrestlers to fill out questionnaires to get info on them. I love Baron Von Raschke's answer to "HOBBY" (and Landrum's subtle reaction). Nice mat wrestling by the Baron in the match with Steve Regal & Pedro Morales.





[ 02-02-2012, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Martin Tori ]

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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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plmathfoto
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quote:
Originally posted by REO Speeddealer:
quote:
Originally posted by plmathfoto:
Hell of a wrestler, hell of a heel, one of the worst managers of all time.

Jones as a manager wasn't great, but he's not even in the bottom 10.
Bland, boring, added nothing, might be pretty close to top of the list for me

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Martin Tori
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Here's house show footage from the Spartanburg Memorial Auditorium featuring Steamboat & Jones before the split against Flair & The Superstar:



And footage of Steamboat vs Jones from the Richmond Coliseum (mislabeled on YouTube as Greensboro) after the split:



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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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Martin Tori
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Localized promos for the Charlotte Coliseum:



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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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Martin Tori
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Jones versus Paul Orndorff for the "NWA" TV title at the Charlotte Coliseum:



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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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Martin Tori
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Jones teaming with Greg Valentine against Wahoo McDaniel & Jack Brisco from WPCQ studios in Charlotte:



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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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Martin Tori
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Jones goads Jack Brisco into defending the Mid-Atlantic title:





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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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WickedNick1975
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin Tori:
Jones goads Jack Brisco into defending the Mid-Atlantic title:




This was just on Classics on Demand.

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Cornette Fan
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quote:
Originally posted by plmathfoto:
quote:
Originally posted by REO Speeddealer:
quote:
Originally posted by plmathfoto:
Hell of a wrestler, hell of a heel, one of the worst managers of all time.

Jones as a manager wasn't great, but he's not even in the bottom 10.
Bland, boring, added nothing, might be pretty close to top of the list for me
Agreed 100%. There's a couple guys that I like less, but not many.

Later,
Nate

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Lord Tense Guy
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The problem with Jones as a manager is that most of his guys were boring.

Having seen his work as a wrestler, the guy was a great heel.

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PeteF3
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quote:
Originally posted by One Man Gagne:
The problem with Jones as a manager is that most of his guys were boring.

He was just as bad with Rick Rude & Manny Fernandez, and neither of them were boring. He was even more exposed, actually, coming off tag title runs involving Cornette and J.J.
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Martin Tori
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His heel manager promos weren't great, but then again, as One Man Gagne said, he didn't have much to work with (even when they put him with a neutered Kung Fu Billy Graham).

His ringside antics at house shows were just as good as any top tier manager though.

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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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Martin Tori
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Either way, I should've named the thread:

'CAN WE PLEASE NOT GET INTO ANOTHER LAME DEBATE ABOUT HOW BAD PAUL JONES WAS AS A MANAGER WHEN THE PURPOSE WAS TO DISCUSS HIS MERIT AS A HEEL WRESTLER BY SHOWING THE FEW PIECES OF EXISTING FOOTAGE THAT PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF SUCH A CLAIM.'

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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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Jezebel Jorge
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Thank you Martin for all the #1 goodness!

I think his manager spiel totally went over most people's heads, but I loved it.

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PeteF3
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quote:
Originally posted by Jezebel Jorge:
Thank you Martin for all the #1 goodness!

I think his manager spiel totally went over most people's heads, but I loved it.

Oh, yes, I forgot about the "he was supposed to be bad" argument. The great thing about that point is that it can't be reasoned with or argued--it's like trying to debate a conspiracy theorist.

So, what did that "he was supposed to suck" concept do for Rude or Manny? While Rude was playing third-fiddle to Manny and Jones in the NWA, the WWF snapped him up and actually used him to their advantage while Jones was doing whatever his post-modern act was supposed to be that was going over people's heads.

Jones' job was to infuriate the rubes at a wrestling event, not be the manager equivalent to a David Lynch film. If he went over so many people's heads, then he wasn't doing his job properly.

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Lord Tense Guy
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My point was, having seen him first as a Hitler-y manager of mid-card bums and a never ending feud with Jimmy Valiant, I was surprised what a great heel he was when he wrestled.
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Martin Tori
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quote:
Originally posted by PeteF3:
quote:
Originally posted by Jezebel Jorge:
Thank you Martin for all the #1 goodness!

I think his manager spiel totally went over most people's heads, but I loved it.

Oh, yes, I forgot about the "he was supposed to be bad" argument. The great thing about that point is that it can't be reasoned with or argued--it's like trying to debate a conspiracy theorist.

So, what did that "he was supposed to suck" concept do for Rude or Manny? While Rude was playing third-fiddle to Manny and Jones in the NWA, the WWF snapped him up and actually used him to their advantage while Jones was doing whatever his post-modern act was supposed to be that was going over people's heads.

Jones' job was to infuriate the rubes at a wrestling event, not be the manager equivalent to a David Lynch film. If he went over so many people's heads, then he wasn't doing his job properly.

That's just it though, I don't see what the argument is here. I wasn't a fan of his worker as a manager either (thought his work at ringside was very good but his role as a mouthpiece brought his performance way down).

Point was...as a wrestler, and specifically as a heel, he was damn good.

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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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Matt Farmer from WA
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Didn't grow up in Mid Atlantic region so my first exposure to Jones was as a manager in the early to mid 80's. So during late 80's or so I got some old film footage of matches from the 70's that Paul was involved in. I was greatly surprised at how good he was. I knew at one time he was a top wrestler, but I gotta say as a wrestler he was really good.

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The Fake J.D. McKay
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That first punch-and-sell from Jones to Steamboat made me yell. Geez that was an amazingly realistic looking punch. I am not much on juice, but the only thing that kept this from looking like a shoot was the lack of color.
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WickedNick1975
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a) Paul was a world class heel who was in main event angles and drew in territories all over the country. (Florida wrestling fans still talk about him tossing the Florida title belt into Tampa Bay.)

b) He wasn't given much talent as manager, but when he was given talent, he didn't do much with it. He wasn't a good manager.

c) The reason he wasn't a good manager is that he wasn't a pure mouthpiece. His mic work played off what he did in the ring and vice versa. Without that work in the ring to play off of, he wasn't effective.

d) Gary Hart was a bad bad wrestler. That doesn't mean he wasn't one of the top two or three greatet managers of all time. One doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.

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The Outlaw J.D. McKay (better?,,,)
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I was never exposed to Paul Jones during his hey-day so this thread is a real educational experience for me.

Makes for a good read. Thanks guys.

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Still Tar Heel, Still William
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What WickedNick said. And I'll add, judging #1 solely on his managerial work is, IMO, shortsighted. Those of us who were privy to his in-ring work prior to the feud with Valiant were witness to one of the finest workers of his day. He was easily one of the top three wrestlers in Crockett-land during his tenure there.

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Martin Tori
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Continuing with the PJ appreciation, here are some more clips.

A promo sent in from Florida building up a match with Buddy Colt in Charlotte:



Jones versus Johnny Valentine from what I'm guessing is Miami:



Promo from JCP with JV (then Mid-Atlantic champ) and PJ before their non-title match at Charlotte's Park Center:



Dropping the Mid-Atlantic TV title to Ric Flair:



Defending the U.S. strap against Blackjack Mulligan at the Greensboro Coliseum:



Jones & Orndorff challenge Valentine & Von Raschke for the World tag title:




PJ and Jack Brisco teaming against Carl Fergie & David Patterson:



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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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timmyjax
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin Tori:
Localized promos for the Charlotte Coliseum:


Great find, even though they misspelled Biscoe.
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Martin Tori
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The home of Jack & Jerry Bisco, right?

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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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WickedNick1975
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Buddy Colt and JV are two more good examples of what we're talking about.

Buddy's quiet subdued matter of fact promos were brilliant along side the bone cracking he did in his matches (he tended to break arms), but as an announcer Buddy was mediocre (as even he will admit) and that's being kind.

JV, who many on this board will say is most mesmerizing performer they ever saw in the ring, was shaky at best on the mic. I think doc said something along the lines of when Johnny got behind a mic the mystique started to fade.

Both would have made terrible managers. Both were among the best ever in the ring.

The best in the kayfabe days did it all and their strengths covered their weeknesses. You can't do that as a manager.

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Martin Tori
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Borrowed from another thread, a match from Australia featuring a very young PJ (wrestling as Al Fredericks) versus Ray Stevens:



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"16 day debreidden is hopspital and did gp crazt. Check. Peached are godd, check."

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Fighting Camel
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Paul Jones was fantastic, as a heel or a face. One thing that I thinks gets overlooked in his managerial days.......Jones was very over with the fans of MACW. Putting him with any heel, automatically got that heel over with the fans as someone to be reckon with, whether that were worth a tinker's damn or not. With national expansion, his overall managerial flaws showed, but with Mid-Atlantic fans, he was always "Number #1, Paul Jones".

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Fighting Camel
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin Tori:
Borrowed from another thread, a match from Australia featuring a very young PJ (wrestling as Al Fredericks) versus Ray Stevens:


That was a great find!! Was Al Fredericks a main-eventer then, or just working his way up?

That bout was more realistic looking than anything I've seen in the last 10 years or more.

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