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Author Topic: Dick Murdoch in the KKK?
Silent Majority
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I was looking at Dick Murdoch's wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Murdoch) and it mentioned the following:

"In a shoot interview, Bad News Brown accused Dick Murdoch of being a member of the Ku Klux Klan.[4] This was also mentioned by Tito Santana in his autobiography, Tales From The Ring. Former WWE SmackDown head writer Alex Greenfield also related a story told to him by Dusty Rhodes about Murdoch driving them to a Klan party without telling him it was a KKK party beforehand."

Has anyone else heard this? I know he teamed with the Junkyard Dog in Mid South, but just would be surprised JYD would team with him if he was a Klansman.

[ 12-02-2012, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Silent Majority ]

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Crimson Mask from FL
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Yeah it's pretty common knowledge. It's the rasslin business. Trying to figure this stuff out will make your brain smoke. Homer O'Dell was a Klan guy and he not only managed but roomed with Norvel Austin. Bulldog Brower was a white supremacist and all the black guys of his era worked with him.

So long from the Sunshine State!

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SomethingSavage
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I've heard it talked about (kind of openly, like you mentioned) by various people in numerous shoot interviews & stuff over the years. Just seemed like common knowledge that was generally accepted, sort of like Mask said.

Can't recall who (might have been Watts - but I'm not absolutely sure), but someone spoke about Murdoch being more about the beliefs of never mixing ethnicity among races than anything else.

[ 12-02-2012, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: SomethingSavage ]

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Martin Tori
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Even weirder that guys like Tony Atlas and Skip Young rode with Murdoch and apparently loved him to death.

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Silent Majority
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Thanks guys for the info. Guess Murdoch knew he had to suck it up and put his KKK mentality aside to make some money with the black wrestlers.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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That's what I mean. I'm not sure that was even an issue for him. I don't think it was.

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Silent Majority
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CM, do you think Dick was blackballed by any promoter because of the KKK thing?

[ 12-02-2012, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Silent Majority ]

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Portalesman
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Long story short many many many people didnt believe in the mixing of the races and that was the extent of their involvement. Both white and black.

Things were different then than now. Shocker, huh?

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Portalesman
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quote:
Originally posted by Silent Majority:
CM, do you think Dick was blackballed by any promoter because of the KKK thing?

Im kinda weirded out. It'd be like somebody being blackballed in todays day and age because they they date outside their ethnicity. Its commonplace now. Then the opposite was commonplace.

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Silent Majority
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Right, portalesman, different day and time indeed.

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Martin Tori
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quote:
Originally posted by Portalesman:
quote:
Originally posted by Silent Majority:
CM, do you think Dick was blackballed by any promoter because of the KKK thing?

Im kinda weirded out. It'd be like somebody being blackballed in todays day and age because they they date outside their ethnicity. Its commonplace now. Then the opposite was commonplace.
Didn't Ernie Ladd even book him.

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SomethingSavage
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Ahh. Thanks for jogging my memory there, Martin. It actually was Tony Atlas himself that spoke about Murdoch being against the blending of bloodlines & ethnicity more than anything else.

Matter of fact, he most recently mentioned it AGAIN in his YouShoot with Kayfabe Commentaries. But yeah. Apparently a lot of guys got along just fine with Captain Redneck anyhow, and vice versa.

[ 12-02-2012, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: SomethingSavage ]

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Silent Majority
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I'm kinda surprised Vince hired him in 1984 because man it looks like if the media got a hold of the story that he now employs a wrestler who is in the KKK-just would have been a big black eye during the time when he was going national. Like we all know though, different day and time.

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Portalesman
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin Tori:
quote:
Originally posted by Portalesman:
quote:
Originally posted by Silent Majority:
CM, do you think Dick was blackballed by any promoter because of the KKK thing?

Im kinda weirded out. It'd be like somebody being blackballed in todays day and age because they they date outside their ethnicity. Its commonplace now. Then the opposite was commonplace.
Didn't Ernie Ladd even book him.
Pfft. Ernie Ladd wouldnt even sell Hank Aaron any fried chicken.

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Martin Tori
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I've told this story before but I was in radio 25 years ago (long after this sort of thing stopped being socially acceptable anywhere) and on Sundays, the station sold time to radio preachers.

In the morning it was mostly black churches, but right in the middle of the schedule there was this white preacher who would come in. Turned out, he was also the Imperial Grand Wizard of the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

But he would promo the black preachers who followed his show and on several occasions I saw him shaking hands with the black worshippers in the lobby, hugging the black preachers, etc, etc. The black preachers would put him over, saying he was "doing his part" to keep the races separated, citing the Tower of Babel as their "precedent."

Was all very, very odd and they all came across as very sweet, very lovely people. Until a few years later, when the Christian Knights got sued into oblivion for burning down a black church.

[ 12-02-2012, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Martin Tori ]

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Silent Majority
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LOL, I bet that was a pretty funny Dusty story of Murdoch unknowingly taking him to a KKK rally. Maybe he will share it with the world one day in a shoot interview, if he hasn't already.

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Portalesman
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quote:
Originally posted by Silent Majority:
LOL, I bet that was a pretty funny Dusty story of Murdoch unknowingly taking him to a KKK rally. Maybe he will share it with the world one day in a shoot interview, if he hasn't already.

He has shared the story online (web). It was a shoot (insider term).

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Silent Majority
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lol glad we got p-man to define us the wrestling terms like "shoot"-I'd be lost otherwise. Now let me ask you this p-man-a "babyface" is what the Apter mags would call a "fan favorite" correct??? Conversely, a "heel" is "rulebreaker" right? You know I'm clueless since I'm member # 80,612 and all.

[ 12-02-2012, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Silent Majority ]

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Silent Majority
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Good story Martin. Just shows you never know how someone really is behind closed doors.

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Mon-Ray-Al
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When Dusty opened his mouth, I bet they were all "hey what is this black dude disguised as this white dude?"

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The Outlaw J.D. McKay (better?,,,)
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quote:
Originally posted by Mon-Ray-Al:
When Dusty opened his mouth, I bet they were all "hey what is this black dude disguised as this white dude?"

[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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james beard
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I spent a lot of time around Dick; And I mean A LOT. He was really a pretty typical child of his generation in that he was brought up in a segregated world and his views were influenced by that. In our part of the country, that was not uncommon. It took a lot of time and some uncomfortable changes to get by the stereotypes and feelings that most communities and families had when it came to race relations and the differences in cultures. That goes both ways.

Believe me, there were (and probably still are) as many black racists as there were white and families from both sides of the racial equation had separatist influences and distrust of the other races in general. I still see evidence of that today. Unless you grew up in an urban, mixed race area, which was not all that common in our part of the country, that's just the way it was. Dick grew up in that era and in this part of the country and so did I. We were very different personalities and had different natural tolerances, but I know the way things were because I was there and in that time.

Frankly, I never saw or heard Dick do or say anything that made me think of him as being extreme in his feelings toward other races anymore so that some other guy on the street.

He was willing to work with pretty much anyone of any color and from what I saw, judged them by the same criteria he judged most other guys in the wrestling business. Some he respected and liked and some he thought were not worthy of his respect as far as skills or potential to make money with was concerned and some he just didn't care for personally. That went for black and white wrestlers.

Dick was definitely a redneck and I have no doubt he had his prejudices, but I honestly never saw him abuse anyone because of race.

He could be ornery and difficult with certain guys because he thought they were beneath his standards as far as being a wrestler was concerned and he would sometimes take out his feelings on those poor souls. But, I never saw any evidence that it made him any difference if they were black or white or any other color or ethnic background.

I'm not saying Dick was not somewhat racist or didn't have racist feelings, but I am saying I didn't see him as being any more so than a lot of guys I knew of in those days. In all honesty, it was just part of growing up in those times for a lot of folks. But, I believe, like a lot of people from that era, he mellowed in that regard as time passed and the social climate began to change a bit. The prejudices were most likely still there, but they didn't show so obviously as they might have earlier on.

I never heard Dick even mention the KKK. Not saying he didn't have an affiliation at some point or maybe even all the time I knew him. But, I never heard him say a word about it, personally.

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Tyler From Charlotte
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quote:
Originally posted by james beard:
I never heard Dick even mention the KKK. Not saying he didn't have an affiliation at some point or maybe even all the time I knew him. But, I never heard him say a word about it, personally.

Considering that I have spent my entire nearly 40 years in the south, I understand what you are saying. The last paragraph in your post is the important one to me. I know many people that racial type issues were ingrained in them from early childhood by their family, and they never even really knew any other way to think. Because of that they they never went out of their way to even consider anything different. Being an actual participating member in a known terrorist organization like the Klan is a whole different matter. Having opinions on something like race is mostly inevitable, but aggressively pursuing those beliefs through violence, intimidation etc. is where those in the Klan separate themselves from simply being ignorant or a sign of the times. I would hope that Murdoch would not fall into that category, and your last paragraph encourages me to believe so.
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Crimson Mask from FL
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Not sure if he was card carrying, but again SEEMS he was at least affiliated.

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Iron_Ranger
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I think being affiliated with Klan members and being a card holding member are completely two different things. I am not from the south, but I would imagine that growing up in the south during the first half of the century you had many friends and acquaintances that were members. I would liken this to up here on the Iron Range. There are a number of 1%er biker gangs. The members work in the community, their kids go to the schools, they are part of other civic and social clubs. I have friends who are patched members of biker clubs. If they have a wedding, birthday party, etc. when you go to one of these events there will be many, many members of different clubs and it will definitely look and feel like you are at a biker party. My being there doesn't mean I'm a biker, I just have friends who are in the clubs. So even the point of saying you are affiliated with a club, might be to strong a point. You could just have friends in that club which means you are welcome at their events, which could have been the case for Dick especially with the timeframe we are discussing.
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john8
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I wouldn't touch this thread with a 10 foot pole. Hatred for blacks was always wrong. I get what everyone is saying about the differences between now and then though. Some of my older relatives make me uncomfortable when they bring the subject up.

[ 12-03-2012, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: john8 ]

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Silent Majority
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Thanks Mr. Beard for your response because I know you knew the guy well and was interesting hearing your response.

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The Outlaw J.D. McKay (better?,,,)
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quote:
Originally posted by john8:
I wouldn't touch this thread with a 10 foot pole. Hatred for blacks was always wrong. I get what everyone is saying about the differences between now and then though. Some of my older relatives make me uncomfortable when they bring the subject up.

"Hatred for blacks was always wrong."

Just as a follow up...in my opinion, hatred for ANYONE of ANY RACE is wrong...but then again, what do I know?

[ 12-03-2012, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: The Outlaw J.D. McKay (better?,,,) ]

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james beard
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Yeah, I agree JD and normally I would stay clear of any discussion about race, religion or politics, but since it was about someone I knew well and spent a great deal of time with, I thought I'd chance it. No matter what Dick's real feelings, affiliations or relationships were, what I witnessed from him and what I knew about him just didn't completely mesh with the legend. Again, not saying he was pure at heart about race relations, but he never came across as some I have known who were blatantly prejudiced.

Regardless, I believe it's a shame you have to feel so afraid of speaking up about subject's like this even though I understand the hesitation. Wrong thinking is not unique to any race when it comes to the subject of prejudice and hatred. As far as I'm concerned it's wrong and shameful no matter who or which faction promotes it. We shouldn't be judging people without real and obvious proof, but we shouldn't be afraid to state the truth, either.

Just so you won't feel so guilty about your older relatives, John, there's plenty of wrong thinking to go around from all sides of the racial fences.

[ 12-03-2012, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: james beard ]

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TexasWrestling
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The first I ever heard of Dick Murdoch being in the KKK was from Tito Santana and Bad News Allen on the web. I wonder if Tito felt offended because he was Hispanic. Why did he call himself Captain Redneck, was this just a nickname to get over in the South or was this a code for his associations?

This segment with Chief Jay Strongbow where Dick Murdoch says "The back of the bus" to Strongbow is hilarious, but I doubt we would ever see this in today’s wrestling. Dick Murdoch and Adrain Adonis are hilarious heels, but Murdoch’s character in the segment may be revealing about himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r-ZEW0wKjo

[ 12-03-2012, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: TexasWrestling ]

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Portalesman
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quote:
Originally posted by TexasWrestling:
was this a code for his associations?


I asked Tito if it were a code for his associations. He said yes.

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Wallnutz from CA
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quote:
Originally posted by james beard:
Yeah, I agree JD and normally I would stay clear of any discussion about race, religion or politics, but since it was about someone I knew well and spent a great deal of time with, I thought I'd chance it. No matter what Dick's real feelings, affiliations or relationships were, what I witnessed from him and what I knew about him just didn't completely mesh with the legend. Again, not saying he was pure at heart about race relations, but he never came across as some I have known who were blatantly prejudiced.

Regardless, I believe it's a shame you have to feel so afraid of speaking up about subject's like this even though I understand the hesitation. Wrong thinking is not unique to any race when it comes to the subject of prejudice and hatred. As far as I'm concerned it's wrong and shameful no matter who or which faction promotes it. We shouldn't be judging people without real and obvious proof, but we shouldn't be afraid to state the truth, either.

Just so you won't feel so guilty about your older relatives, John, there's plenty of wrong thinking to go around from all sides of the racial fences.

so youre making an equivalent to the KKK with some black people that hold resentment for generations of white supremacy...REALLY?

The logic in this baffles me

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Martin Tori
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quote:
Originally posted by Wallnutz from CA:
quote:
Originally posted by james beard:
Yeah, I agree JD and normally I would stay clear of any discussion about race, religion or politics, but since it was about someone I knew well and spent a great deal of time with, I thought I'd chance it. No matter what Dick's real feelings, affiliations or relationships were, what I witnessed from him and what I knew about him just didn't completely mesh with the legend. Again, not saying he was pure at heart about race relations, but he never came across as some I have known who were blatantly prejudiced.

Regardless, I believe it's a shame you have to feel so afraid of speaking up about subject's like this even though I understand the hesitation. Wrong thinking is not unique to any race when it comes to the subject of prejudice and hatred. As far as I'm concerned it's wrong and shameful no matter who or which faction promotes it. We shouldn't be judging people without real and obvious proof, but we shouldn't be afraid to state the truth, either.

Just so you won't feel so guilty about your older relatives, John, there's plenty of wrong thinking to go around from all sides of the racial fences.

so youre making an equivalent to the KKK with some black people that hold resentment for generations of white supremacy...REALLY?

The logic in this baffles me

Actually for probably the past 30+ years, they hold resentment because the powers that be like to use issues that happened 50 years ago to divide and conquer, keep people fighting over trivial matters like race and sexual orientation and not spot the real enemies.

[ 12-03-2012, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Martin Tori ]

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Silent Majority
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Didn't mean to start a racial dispute in this thread. Just was wondering if Murdoch was actually in the KKK or not.

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Tatsuya
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Oddly was just re-reading Superstar Bill Graham's book and he calls Murdoch a racist loser. Tells a story of the time Murdoch and Ray Stevens were in a restaurant and Murdoch called the waitress the N word. Wrote that Stevens got mad and threatened Murdoch next time he did that, he would beat him up.

Don't know how credible Graham is given the stunt he pulled against McMahon in the 90's so like all things pro wrestling, take it with a grain of salt.

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Wallnutz from CA
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin Tori:
quote:
Originally posted by Wallnutz from CA:
quote:
Originally posted by james beard:
Yeah, I agree JD and normally I would stay clear of any discussion about race, religion or politics, but since it was about someone I knew well and spent a great deal of time with, I thought I'd chance it. No matter what Dick's real feelings, affiliations or relationships were, what I witnessed from him and what I knew about him just didn't completely mesh with the legend. Again, not saying he was pure at heart about race relations, but he never came across as some I have known who were blatantly prejudiced.

Regardless, I believe it's a shame you have to feel so afraid of speaking up about subject's like this even though I understand the hesitation. Wrong thinking is not unique to any race when it comes to the subject of prejudice and hatred. As far as I'm concerned it's wrong and shameful no matter who or which faction promotes it. We shouldn't be judging people without real and obvious proof, but we shouldn't be afraid to state the truth, either.

Just so you won't feel so guilty about your older relatives, John, there's plenty of wrong thinking to go around from all sides of the racial fences.

so youre making an equivalent to the KKK with some black people that hold resentment for generations of white supremacy...REALLY?

The logic in this baffles me

Actually for probably the past 30+ years, they hold resentment because the powers that be like to use issues that happened 50 years ago to divide and conquer, keep people fighting over trivial matters like race and sexual orientation and not spot the real enemies.
probably so but if you read some of these statements above people are talking like the KKK was the equivalent of the local Kiwanis club..when in actuality they were often a mob of cowardly killers

I understand that you grow the way you do and where you do blah blah but at the same time placing moral equivalency between a murderous organization and some bitter black folks just seems like quite the stretch

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Claymation Quartermain
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Judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin and you can't go wrong.

[ 12-04-2012, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: Claymation Quartermain ]

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Palmettopig
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Not everyone in the KKK hated black people. Some where just in it because they didn't think blacks and whites belonged together in the same schools or same restaurants. Or had a problem with blacks and whites dating.

Some join the Klan to keep the white race "pure" or because they have Southern Pride. Some just do it to belong to a group b/c they have nothing else going for them.

I've known Klan members before(it's been 20 years since I've seen one) who did have black friends.

The different beliefs of the Klan is why there are so many different branches of it. Not every member hates black people and wants to see them all dead.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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'Some of my best friends aren't genocidal.' Great.

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So long from the Sunshine State!

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Bnicholas
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This thread really disturbs me.
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