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» WrestlingClassics.com Message Board » Professional Wrestling & General Discussion '99-June '07 » N.W.A Capitol Wrestling prior to April 1963? (Page 2)

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Author Topic: N.W.A Capitol Wrestling prior to April 1963?
Crimson Mask I
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
Okay, gonna give this the off-the-top-of-my-head version, corrections and elaborations welcome:

quote:
Originally posted by LarsUlrichFan:
5) Who had more power, Toots Mondt or Vince McMahon, Sr.?

Call it a draw.
Or not. Buddy Colt says:

quote:
CM: At this time Toots Mondt was in the promotion with Vince McMahon. What was the division of labor there?

BC: The running of the promotion was Vince McMahon. I was up there for a year and I think I saw Toots Mondt two or three times.

So he was pretty much just the hookup to New York and MSG?

I believe so, yes.



[ 04-06-2005, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Crimson Mask I ]

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Ken Viewer
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phoenixkeeper:

_________________________________________________

As to titles, there were 4 titles in the area, 3 of which were completely synthetic, in my opinion....

__________________________________________________

The NWA World Heavyweight title was recognized and periodically defended after Thesz's long run. Pat O'Connor, when he held the belt, came in for a tour, and went on TV out of Washington, D.C., among other places, to challenge local performers. He said he could beat them all, and challenged Rocca --who was not there that night. "He claims he's the uncrowned champion," O'Connor said, and he offered Rocca a title shot. In the New York City market, I recall no such match.

In Philadelphia, however, Rocca vs. O'Connor to a 60-minute draw was the top arena attraction at about that time.

O'Connor didn't sell tickets in New York and the only card I recall him heading was one on a Saturday afternoon at Sunnyside Gardens. He defended against Cowboy Bob Orton to a double dq.

He stayed in the territory, at best, a couple of months, received no push other than his belt, and moved on. He had electricity, could cut promos, but didn't have any feuds set up.

When Rogers, as he later put it, "ran Rocca out of New York City," and took O'Connor's title in Chicago, the title became a major promo item, although, as mentioned by others, the New York State Athletic Commission refused to allow title claims to be made in ring introductions. Titleholders did get to carry their belts into the ring at Madison Square Garden.

[ 04-07-2005, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Ken Viewer ]

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Crimson Mask I
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quote:
Originally posted by Ken Viewer:
O'Connor didn't sell tickets in New York and the only card I recall him heading was one on a Saturday afternoon at Sunnyside Gardens. He defended against Cowboy Bob Orton to a double dq.

Would hadda be Bob Orton period. Cowboy Bob was Bob Jr. Maybe you were confounding Orton and Cowboy Bob Ellis. Or maybe it was Ellis? I remember some O'Connor vs. Ellis matches where O'Connor heeled but I think they were in St. Louis.

[ 04-07-2005, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Crimson Mask I ]

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Lee Wong
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Ken was right about O'Conner not headlining in NYC. He appeared at the Garden only 3 times during his time as NWA champ. Once going to a ten minute draw with Haystacks Calhoun in 6/59 in the semi-windup under Rocca&Perez vs. Valentine & The Shiek. Then on the January and February MSG cards in 1961 he did shots but by the 2/61 card he was way down the card wrestling Karl Von Hess. Of course none of these were advertised as NWA title matches. As far as the Orton or Ellis issue is was more than likely O'Connor wrestled Orton who came to the Capital territory in the spring of 1961. Bob Ellis didn't start appearing until very early 1962 and started immediately headlining against Rogers.
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Ken Viewer
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
[.[/qb]

Would hadda be Bob Orton period. Cowboy Bob was Bob Jr. Maybe you were confounding Orton and Cowboy Bob Ellis. Or maybe it was Ellis? I remember some O'Connor vs. Ellis matches where O'Connor heeled but I think they were in St. Louis...

__________________________________________________

It was a guy who wrestled as Cowboy Bob Orton, IIRC. Facially, this guy looked a lot skinnier and younger, but much like the WWE Hall of Fame Orton. Cowboy Bob had a period where he was tag-teaming with Buddy Rogers.

This teaming continued while Rogers was holding the NWA Heavyweight belt, and for whatever reason, he was teamed with Orton for main-event matches. The two of them took the local U.S. Heavyweight titles off of then-faces Johnny Valentine and Cowboy Bob Ellis, thus giving Rogers both of the major belts in the Capitol Wrestling promotion.

While this had to make the office happy because they determined who held the tag belts, it made no sense from a box-office point of view. In fact, Valentine and sudden-substitute-partner Ellis (Valentine had been teaming with Antonino Rocca for months), had recently taken the U.S. belts off of the Kangaroos, who won the belts back from --I guess-- Rogers and Orton a few weeks later.

Rocca then lost a very lackluster main-event match at Madison Square Garden against Rogers for the NWA title on a weird DQ. Two out of three falls, with one fall each, and Rocca suddenly attacks Rogers during the break. Ref DQed Rocca, who hadn't sold a reason for the attack.

Next show there, Miguel Perez flies back in for a one-nighter to team with Rocca, both carrying their World Tag-team championship belts against Rogers and Orton. Clean win for Rocca and Perez and the World belts were never seen again (pre-WWWF). And that, IIRC, was Rocca's last main-event match at MSG until I stopped following the game.

Ken

[ 04-07-2005, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Ken Viewer ]

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Crimson Mask I
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Hold up. Are you saying Bob Orton who teamed with Rogers, the Big O, aka Rocky Fitzpatrick, later the masked Zodiac, was a Jr. and a 2nd gen wrestler? As far as I know that's not true. Nobody who knows the family ever said anything like that to me. He's who I mean by Bob Orton Sr. As far as I know he never worked as Cowboy Bob Orton.

His son is who I mean by Bob Orton Jr., aka Cowboy Bob Orton, aka 'Ace'.

His other son is Berry Orton.

Randy Orton is the son of Bob Jr.

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Ken Viewer
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Crimson Mask:

_________________________________________________

Hold up. Are you saying Bob Orton who teamed with Rogers, the Big O, aka Rocky Fitzpatrick, later the masked Zodiac, was a Jr. and a 2nd gen wrestler?

_________________________________________________

I have no record books, bios or wrestling books to use for reference. Some of my old Wrestling Revues are around but I know not where. All I remember is a tall, athletic, big-boned-but-not-chubby guy wearing a cowboy hat at times and wrestling under the names of Bob Orton and Cowboy Bob Orton. He was taller than Rogers and facially looked a lot like the Orton who was just inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.

He mostly teamed with Rogers, but was skilled enough to handle main events at smaller New York venues. I've edited my earlier post accordingly.

I'm relying on you historians to tell us all who we were watching. I was there as a fan, and that's all I bring to the table. Beyond that, I couldn't tell a real-life Bob Orton from a Bob Dylan.

One other recollection; IIRC, TV announcer Ray Morgan once referred to Orton's father as a wrestler.

Ken

[ 04-07-2005, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Ken Viewer ]

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Crimson Mask I
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Bob Sr. came back a few years later as Cowboy Rocky Fitzpatrick and wrestled Bruno. But yeah, we're talking about the same guy. Lemme find a pic. K, here he is a bit younger:

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Rollo Nickels from WA
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Great thread! I don't recall Rocky Fitzpatrick having any cowboyness. My understanding was that VM wanted an Irishman so he gave Orton the name.

phoenixkeeper, your posts (as well as Lee Wong's and others') are really ringing my bells! I missed being able to go to Sunnyside Gardens shows, as my parents hauled us out of Flushing to grow up in north Jersey, and by the time I was old enough to attend I was too far away. But it's a magical pair of words.

R

--------------------
Never mistake motion for action. - Ernest Hemmingway

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Crimson Mask I
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quote:
Originally posted by Rollo Nickels:
Great thread! I don't recall Rocky Fitzpatrick having any cowboyness. My understanding was that VM wanted an Irishman so he gave Orton the name.

Coulda sworn it was a cowboy gimmick.
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Rollo Nickels from WA
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CM, you may be right, but I distinctly remember seeing him hatless and gimmickless as RF, the first time Bruno ever had the actual published "odds" against him in the paper.

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Never mistake motion for action. - Ernest Hemmingway

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Lee Wong
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
quote:
Originally posted by Rollo Nickels:
Great thread! I don't recall Rocky Fitzpatrick having any cowboyness. My understanding was that VM wanted an Irishman so he gave Orton the name.

Coulda sworn it was a cowboy gimmick.
Rollo's right CM. Rocky Fitzpatrick was gimmicked as a tough Irishman. He wasn't to tough though, Bruno squashed him in 8 minutes in their one MSG meeting.
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Crimson Mask I
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Said it many times before but that whole thing confuses me. Did he have ANY appearance change as Kilpatrick? It wasn't THAT many years after he was there as himself. Can't believe most of the fans didn't recognize him immediately.
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Lee Wong
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The WWWF did try to confuse people. Antonio Pugliese was a regular for five years. Comes back five years later as Tony Parisi in 1975. Exact same style. Prince Iaukea all thru 1966 and a bit of '67 comes back as King Curtis only four years later but it's the exact same gimmick.
As mentioned before, Vince the Elder did seem to have a thing for Irish heels. Inventing Rocky Fitzpatrick, Blackjack Mulligan, and Hulk Hogan. However, Mulligan and Hogan were not known commodities in the Northeast when they debuted.

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Ken Viewer
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
Said it many times before but that whole thing confuses me. Did he have ANY appearance change as Kilpatrick? It wasn't THAT many years after he was there as himself. Can't believe most of the fans didn't recognize him immediately.

Looking at the picture you posted, I would have bought Fitzpatrick as another guy, if that's him. I had stopped following the promotion before the WWWF switch so I never saw Fitzpatrick. The Cowboy Bob I remember appeared in the Capitol promotion, circa 1961, and,well, okay, the photo image looks like a member of the Orton clan.

If I ever find my old Wrestling Revues, I'll look for an appropriate photo and post it. The Orton I remember has a facial resemblance to your photo --and I know the camera can distort and lie-- but had no baby-fat or excess poundage. The guy wasn't ripped but was tall and lean and a heck of a lot older. I know you said the photo is an earlier one, but how much earlier?

As a heel, the guy I saw never smiled, so comparing the face --which IIRC was longer and skinnier-- isn't all that easy. I used to sit second-row ringside at MSG, and had a clear television signal off of NYC's channel 5, which broadcast the house shows from Washington, Sunnyside and CT. Confused is me.

Ken

[ 04-08-2005, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Ken Viewer ]

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Alfred Ticineto,
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
Hold up. Are you saying Bob Orton who teamed with Rogers, the Big O, aka Rocky Fitzpatrick, later the masked Zodiac, was a Jr. and a 2nd gen wrestler? As far as I know that's not true. Nobody who knows the family ever said anything like that to me. He's who I mean by Bob Orton Sr. As far as I know he never worked as Cowboy Bob Orton.

His son is who I mean by Bob Orton Jr., aka Cowboy Bob Orton, aka 'Ace'.

His other son is Berry Orton.

Randy Orton is the son of Bob Jr.

I have a 50s wrestling tape with Orton (Sr) agianst Dick the Bruiser, and the announcer (Russ Davis)does say that "Orton's father also wrestled." At the CAC reunion next week, if Bob Sr makes an appearance, I'm going to ask him about that.

[ 04-08-2005, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Alfred Ticineto ]

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Crimson Mask I
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quote:
Originally posted by Ken Viewer:
quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
Said it many times before but that whole thing confuses me. Did he have ANY appearance change as Kilpatrick? It wasn't THAT many years after he was there as himself. Can't believe most of the fans didn't recognize him immediately.

Looking at the picture you posted, I would have bought Fitzpatrick as another guy, if that's him. I had stopped following the promotion before the WWWF switch so I never saw Fitzpatrick. The Cowboy Bob I remember appeared in the Capitol promotion, circa 1961, and,well, okay, the photo image looks like a member of the Orton clan.

If I ever find my old Wrestling Revues, I'll look for an appropriate photo and post it. The Orton I remember has a facial resemblance to your photo --and I know the camera can distort and lie-- but had no baby-fat or excess poundage. The guy wasn't ripped but was tall and lean and a heck of a lot older. I know you said the photo is an earlier one, but how much earlier?

As a heel, the guy I saw never smiled, so comparing the face --which IIRC was longer and skinnier-- isn't all that easy. I used to sit second-row ringside at MSG, and had a clear television signal off of NYC's channel 5, which broadcast the house shows from Washington, Sunnyside and CT. Confused is me.

Ken

That's definitely Big Bob Orton. That's the Central States title, which he held in '51 and again in '54.

Here's a pic from a '64 ad clipping:

 -

And from Pete Lederberg, one from the probably '69 (Orton had been out with a broken collarbone, and when he came back, was never again in the same physical shape as he had always been before the injury), with Bob Roop... :



And one from maybe '72 or '73, with Bob Jr.:



[ 04-08-2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Crimson Mask I ]

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Ken Viewer
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CM: Thanks for finding and putting up the photos and ad. The lineup you offer has me pointing to the older guy (Bob,Jr.'s dad) in the bottom photo. It's been 42 years, but I'd say that guy has the right face (wrong hair color, Capitol's Orton worked as a platinum blonde), but is slightly older than the wrestler I remember

Ken

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Count Grog
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Toots ran Pittsburgh with the help of Rudy Miller and Ace Freeman. When Toots sold out to Bruno it was an extension of the WWWF but not completely under its control. It had its own TV, recognized various tag champs and the NWF North American Champion. It was allied loosely at various times with NWF, WWA (Bruiser), The Sheik and Toronto.
Geeto Mongol took it over in 1971 and then sold out to Pedro Martinez in 1972 and he kinds of gave it back to Bruno, who shut it down at the end of 1974.

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IMD Huckster
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
quote:
Originally posted by Rollo Nickels:
Great thread! I don't recall Rocky Fitzpatrick having any cowboyness. My understanding was that VM wanted an Irishman so he gave Orton the name.

Coulda sworn it was a cowboy gimmick.
Indeed, as I recall, Rocky Fitzpatrick wore a cowboy hat and fringed vest into the ring and was introduced as hailing from Carson City, Nevada.

He didn't have the bleached blonde hair, but was obviously the Big O.

I don't recall him speaking for himself, but I forget who managed him. Red Berry?

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Silence is golden. Duct tape is silver.

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Lee Wong
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quote:
Originally posted by IMD Huckster:
quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
quote:
Originally posted by Rollo Nickels:
Great thread! I don't recall Rocky Fitzpatrick having any cowboyness. My understanding was that VM wanted an Irishman so he gave Orton the name.

Coulda sworn it was a cowboy gimmick.
Indeed, as I recall, Rocky Fitzpatrick wore a cowboy hat and fringed vest into the ring and was introduced as hailing from Carson City, Nevada.

He didn't have the bleached blonde hair, but was obviously the Big O.

I don't recall him speaking for himself, but I forget who managed him. Red Berry?

ARRGHHH!!!
If this is true. And I'm not doubting your word at all IMD. I must have the first incarnation of Bob Orton with the bleached blond hair who went into the Northeast rings under the name of Bob Orton mixed up with Orton's later return as the version of Rocky Fitzpatrick. If that's indeed the case, it sounds like Rocky was actually the first true Blackjack Mulligan(in the respect that you had a big tough manufactured Irish cowboy)

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Crimson Mask I
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quote:
Originally posted by IMD Huckster:
quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
quote:
Originally posted by Rollo Nickels:
Great thread! I don't recall Rocky Fitzpatrick having any cowboyness. My understanding was that VM wanted an Irishman so he gave Orton the name.

Coulda sworn it was a cowboy gimmick.
Indeed, as I recall, Rocky Fitzpatrick wore a cowboy hat and fringed vest into the ring and was introduced as hailing from Carson City, Nevada.

He didn't have the bleached blonde hair, but was obviously the Big O.

I don't recall him speaking for himself, but I forget who managed him. Red Berry?

Sounds right. His second son as I mentioned was Berry Orton. He worked as Barry O and most people think his name is Barry, but it's Berry. He was named after Red.
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Will Morrisey
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quote:
Originally posted by Lee Wong:
quote:
Originally posted by bburgess64:
Which Crockett wrestlers went to NYC at that point and did Crockett still run a fully-stocked circuit at that point?

The two biggest names that I remember were Rip Hawk and Swede Hanson. There was a great result thread for the whole 1963-64 season over on the old KM board. IIRC, the infamous Frankie Williams got his start here with Rocca.
The show aired on Monday nights on WOR-TV Channel Nine, then switched to Tuesday nights in February 1964.

Here's the first card I saw:

9/30/63:
Gino Lanza beat Gene Anderson
George Becker beat Joe Tomasso
Rip Hawk and Swede Hanson beat Angelo Martinelli and Jesse James (straight falls)
Antonino Rocca beat Jose Romano (straight falls)

Some of the others in the lineup:
Greg Jarque
Miguel Torres
Lenny Montana
Jolly Cholly
Karl and Adolf Von Hess
Johnny Walker
Kit Fox
George "Man Mountain" Cannon (a.k.a. "Crybaby")
Tony Cosenza
Johnny Barend
Mike and Doc Gallagher
Johnny Heideman
Bob Ellis (very brief run)
Francois Valois
Tony Altimore
Rocky Storm
Jules Zanzibar
The Firpo Brothers

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Steve Yohe
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Bump
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Crimson Mask from FL
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Apparently Berry being Barry's real name is another rasslin urban legend. Eh.

--------------------
So long from the Sunshine State!

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timbo_slice
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The Crockett-Rocca alliance intrigues me. What was Crockett's goal? To gain a foothold in the northeast, or just to pocket the booking fee money Rocca was paying him?
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Skullbutt
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I began watching Capitol wrestling in late 1957, and I hadn't seen this thread. Brought back memories. A couple of points

--The Big O, Bob Orton was Rogers' tag team partner, managed by Bobby Davis. I never heard him called "Cowboy." Many years later, I read that he tried discouraging his sons from becoming pro wrestlers. He was a high school football rival and later good friend of Ed Asner.
--I was at the O'Connor/Calhoun match at MSG. I don't know if it was billed as an NWA championship match, but on television Ray Morgan had said it was for the NWA title. The match ended shortly because of curfew.
--The Graham Brothers, Lewin and Curtis, and the Kangeroos traded tag team titles fairly regularly, sometimes on television
--Despite what someone wrote, there were a huge number of squashes
--There were inteviews with wrestlers between matches. I assume they were not taped.
--Ray Morgan was a DC newscaster and Lonny Starr a NY disc jockey. Morgan was the announcer at the MSG show I attended, but don't know if he did that regularly

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phoenixkeeper
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"Despite what someone wrote, there were a huge number of squashes"

That was me who wrote about the lack of squashes. My memory may not be totally accurate on this point, but I seem to remember lots of 2 out of 3 fall matches where even guys like Arnold Skoaland (and that's the way it was spelled back then, for some reason) would get a fall. He used a sunset flip and a back slide as his pinning moves and I seem to recall seeing him use them quite a bit. Another one I remember was Abe Jacobs. He was never going to beat Johnny Valentine or Jerry Graham, and even us minors knew it back then, but he could get a fall. What I do not remember from that era are monster heels who just destroyed a hapless opponent in less than 5 minutes (which is my conception of a squash). This may be a matter of definition or maybe just a few years' difference in the times we remember. Anyway, when this old post came up again, I had fun rereading it.

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Skullbutt
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quote:
Originally posted by phoenixkeeper:
"Despite what someone wrote, there were a huge number of squashes"

That was me who wrote about the lack of squashes. My memory may not be totally accurate on this point, but I seem to remember lots of 2 out of 3 fall matches where even guys like Arnold Skoaland (and that's the way it was spelled back then, for some reason) would get a fall. He used a sunset flip and a back slide as his pinning moves and I seem to recall seeing him use them quite a bit. Another one I remember was Abe Jacobs. He was never going to beat Johnny Valentine or Jerry Graham, and even us minors knew it back then, but he could get a fall. What I do not remember from that era are monster heels who just destroyed a hapless opponent in less than 5 minutes (which is my conception of a squash). This may be a matter of definition or maybe just a few years' difference in the times we remember. Anyway, when this old post came up again, I had fun rereading it.

I agree about Jacobs and Skoaland (nteresting about the spelling). But I was thinking of heels like Miguel Torrez and Nature Boy Tom Bradley and faces like Buddy Rosen who were constantly squashed. There are others like that who I don't remember
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phoenixkeeper
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You could add Judo Jack Terry to that heel list and probably also Angelo Savoldi. Savoldi in the years that I saw him never won a match. He had such a loser image in my mind that I was stunned, years (decades actually) later, when I learned he had a run as World Jr. Heavyweight champion. But even though Terry and Savoldi never won -- and we knew they weren't going to win -- I don't remember them as being the hopeless victims of squashes. For one thing, the pacing of the matches was different then, and Jack and Angelo had the opportunity to get in plenty of offense, although ultimately for naught. Always fun to bring up some of those memories.
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50 years fan
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OTHER SQUASHEES FROM THAT ERA.
LEGS LANGEVIN,CHEETO LOPEZ,GREG JARQUE,CHARLES DEVONA,AL SMITH,GORDO CHIHUAHUA,SOLDIER BARRY,TONY COSENZA,TONY MARTINELLI,HERB LARSEN,

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Crimson Mask from FL
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Jack Terry was Calhoun's handler. Langevin served some similar function for Carpentier. Fred Atkins trained Baba in the early '60s. If you check the cards, you will always see Terry on the same cards as Calhoun and etc. and etc.

--------------------
So long from the Sunshine State!

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BestThere'llNeverBe
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
Okay, gonna give this the off-the-top-of-my-head version, corrections and elaborations welcome:

quote:
Originally posted by LarsUlrichFan:
This was the name of the promotion that would become the WWWF. I've got a few questions about it.

1) what cities and states did Capitol run in?


NY, NJ, DC, Pennsylvania

4) Who ran the territory?

As I see you know from the next question, Vince and Mondt. Here's the thing: they had been running AGAINST each other. When they allied and formed Capitol in the '50s, they began bringing in the other independent NE guys, like Fabiani in Philly, under their umbrella, and continued doing so after the NWA split, eventually bringing in Boston, so on.

6) Did they have a television show?

At least one, the DC show with Ray Morgan announcing. I think they had separate TVs in all the main towns.

8) When was the territory officially formed?

Well like I said I think Capitol as an entity per se was formed around '55.

9) Before the 1950's which promotions ran the NorthEast and who controled them?

Fabiani ran Philly. Maryland ran DC. Tony Santos ran Boston into the '60s. Eddie Quinn ran Boston before that. If you go to Hisa's http://wrestling-titles.com and surf around to the different regions he lists the promotors.

So long from the Sunshine State!
NY (except Buffalo and some small venues in NYC ran by other promoters), NJ (which also had some other promoters), DC, Pennsylvania (although the Pittsburgh loop was independently run) yes..but also all of Maryland and Connecticut and Deleware. Maryland was co-owned by Vince and Ed Contos, and had tv out of Baltimore. Connecticut was promoted with Joe Smith, who had tv. Toots ran Pittsburgh and had Studio Wrestling on tv. Fabiani ran Philly, and Zacko ran Jersey, until Fabiani retired, after which Gilzenberg ran NJ, along with various others. Most NY venues were ran by the Johnstons, who also had tv. Kohler was co-promoting Chicago with Vince in the early 60's, that also had tv. Vince started the WWWA in '62, an early fed that connected Chicago, Detroit, Ohio and Pittsburgh. Ohio had CWC cards in small towns like Steubenville beginning in the summer of '60. 1962-1964 featured Capitol/WWWF in all the main OH towns, but rarely after that.

Pre-WWWF, each venue had a different promoter, using talent from Toots and TV from Vince. Even MSG was ran by various promoters until the mid 60's. When they started running Boston in the mid-60's, Abe Ford was the promoter. The last town promoted by someone (with points) other than Vince Sr. was Zacko in Philly, until the buyout by Jr. in '82 when Zacko formally retired.

Jess and Toots started CWC Jan 7th, 1953. When Jess died, Fabiani brought Vince in and he partnered with Toots upon incorporation in D.C. on 8/5/57. Capitol didn't actually incorporate in NY until '61.

CWC also occasionally ran small towns in PA and VA beginning in '57/'58. From '59-'61 Toots ran a couple towns in West Virginia, out of Pittsburgh. Capitol ran Rhode Island (at least) once in 1960, but not again until '62, when it ran regular. WWWF didn't begin running New Hampshire and Maine until '66. I have no record of WWWF in Vermont until 1976.

[ 09-02-2017, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: BestThere'llNeverBe ]

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Krapulax
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quote:
Jess and Toots started CWC Jan 7th, 1953. When Jess died, Fabiani brought Vince in and he partnered with Toots upon incorporation in D.C. on 8/5/57. Capitol didn't actually incorporate in NY until '61.
Did Jess McMahon really start CWC? This is also stated on Wikipedia but not in Capitol Revolution. I thought Vincent J. McMahon started CWC, could someone please clarify?
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Toots and Jess started CWC to back Vince financially on his takeover of Turner's Arena in D.C.

Toots supplied the talent. When Jess died, Vince inherited his part of the company, but it wasn't until Fabiani suggested to Toots that they bring him into New York that CWC expanded beyone D.C./Baltimore.

Part of this was due to the falling out between Toots and Kola Kwariani, as their Manhattan Wrestling Enterprises had gone bankrupt after a few shady deals and selling the company to Pedro Martinez, only to buy it back for half the price once it failed to turn a profit.

CWC was brought in to promote the Garden for a couple years, eventually getting pushed out by Kola/Pfeifer/Martinez for two years from '59-60

Since CWC was started to financially back Vince in D.C., and supply him with talent, it was essentially Vince's company, even if his father and partner owned it for the first couple years until Jess passed away.

Very similar situation from what I can tell as the Johnstons running MSG

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What's the source for this peace of information regarding Jess founding CWC?

[ 10-07-2017, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Krapulax ]

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