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Author Topic: OT - Justice League
Armageddon_T_Thunderbird
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I don't think Superman should have died in the first place and that Doomsday was wasted in the BVS movie. Plus, I don't like the whole "Lex created Doomsday" stuff and like it how it was explained in the older comics, he was a Kryptonian experiment that went out of control and found it's way to Earth. Then proceeded to beat everyone's ass until he got to Superman, then beat his ass until they both died. That would have made a good heros coming together to fight an enemy story.

Then in Justice League 2, you have the rise of the Legion of Doom, as they run wild in a world without Superman.

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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I wouldn't say Supes singlehandedly "wiped the floor" with Steppenwolf. He and Cyborg were both knocked silly at the end...and it was definitely a team effort.

I think you guys are reviewing a movie you wanted to see rather than the movie that was actually made. That's an old criticism Michael J. Fox had of Gene Siskel back in the day. "Gene would've liked the movie it had Judy Garland in it. Well, guess what, Gene? Judy Garland's dead!"

I always give superhero films at least two viewings before I judge them...because I didn't initially like quite a few that I grew to love. It took me a 2nd viewing to dig Sam Raimi's Spider-Man for instance.

Some, like Spawn or Ghost Rider, will suck even if I watch them 100 times. But most are better than their initial reviews would indicate.

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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And I think they're gonna be damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they had given too much back story, people would've been screaming that it was a convoluted clusterf*uck.

Nor do I think that everyone has to be shown at their lowest point so that they can simultaneously have some sort of "arc." Not every movie is Hancock. Sometimes super heroes really just wanna super hero right outta the box.

[ 12-05-2017, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Shaving Weezie Jefferson ]

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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As for what made Superman wanna move forward after his untimely demise, you have to understand where he was at the end of Man of Steel.

He was forced to kill Zod to save lives. He was tortured by that. Then when Batman showed up in BvS (blaming him for the property damage done in Metropolis) and the congressional hearings began (making him feel like he had a target on his back), he was having his "Jesus Moment of Doubt." Then when he "died" beating Doomsday, he hadn't even had time to process everything. When they jumpstarted his heart or whatever, all the emotions flooded back at once.

By the time it was sorted out, he understood his place in everything. He had his purpose.

Not sure how that's confusing. It made perfect sense to me and I went with it, instead of picking apart every little detail because it wasn't the movie EYE would've done. This is all very "I only give it three and a half stars because Seth Rollins didn't use the curb stomp" to me.

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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It also flabbergasts me how people blast JL for having weak dramatic tension but give Thor: Ragnarok a pass (and don't get me wrong, I f'n loved Thor).

The dramatic tension in Thor was 100% built around Anthony Hopkins' Odin (and his, SPOILER ALERT, "passing the torch" to Thor and Loki). But they totally sh*it the sheets with that scene. It was AWFUL. Anthony Hopkins came across as phoning it in (and I'm not entirely sure if I blame him as much as I blame the director and his writers).

The drama, which was what drove the story, was weak as f*uck and nearly derailed everything. Fortunately, the jokes were so good, it worked as a dopey buddy comedy movie instead, maybe the best dopey buddy comedy movies ever, and a really fun superhero movie. But don't tell me that JL wasn't MILES AHEAD of Thor in terms of dramatic construct.

[ 12-05-2017, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Shaving Weezie Jefferson ]

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Matt Farmer from WA
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Like I mentioned I haven't watched Justice League yet. I'm looking forward to it.

The thing with comic book movies, they should be some of the easiest movies to write. There's a formula that works that's been in place for 75 years really. Sure you have to add some dialogue but the jist of the stories are there.

When comparing Marvel vs DC, is the CGI. In both Wonder Women and Suicide Squad there were times when the CGI looked bad to horrible. For the most part in Marvel movies I've never had the cringe worthy feeling like I did at the end of Suicide Squad, which looked like a low budget made for Sci-FI Network movie.

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Handsome Rob from LA
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
That's an old criticism Michael J. Fox had of Gene Siskel back in the day. "Gene would've liked the movie it had Judy Garland in it. Well, guess what, Gene? Judy Garland's dead.”

That’s a great line. Never heard that.

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Wolverine
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Havent seen the film yet, but without spoiling too much, does the climatic fight take place at night? While it's not a deal-breaker, I just dont get why most superhero films (DC AND Marvel) have to have the climax of the film take place at night (Ragnarok did avert this, but the sky was cloudy during the final battle).
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mnwrestlingfan
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It's hard not to compare them, just because I saw the movies seemingly back to back...but I couldn't agree with Weezie more.

Thor was funny...the 2nd time I saw it it was even funnier since I knew what was going on. A great movie....but no dramatic story line. Not that there is no drama, but I always try to judge a movie based on how I feel 24 hours later...and my after day feeling on Thor...it was f'n funny and that's it.

JL was different for me. I didn't want to see a lot of backstory. Hell, most of these characters have been around for a long time. I enjoyed seeing them all come together and battle it out with the bad guys. Which I think was the whole point of the movie. If that's the case, they knocked it outta the park.

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Mon-Ray-Al
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While entertaining and not horrible, there was not much to Justice League. Such a missed opportunity.

Warner are so bad at this. Characters and actors seem to want to do their best but the filmmakers are failing them.

Justice League felt like a mirror image of B v S and Suicide Squad in that the story is so thin and it feels like movies cut in thousand pieces and then ending you have the heroes clash with the villain and it ends in a relatively easy fashion. At the end of JL I was like that's it? Steppenwolf was seen destroying Gods in the past and now he is defeated by Superman "frozing" his lance and WW cutting it with her sword?

Movies with the same crap ending in recent memories, B v S, Fan4stic, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman(good movie, bad ending), Justice League. Too much bad CGI villain showdown.

[ 12-06-2017, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Mon-Ray-Al ]

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Mon-Ray-Al
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
It also flabbergasts me how people blast JL for having weak dramatic tension but give Thor: Ragnarok a pass (and don't get me wrong, I f'n loved Thor).

The dramatic tension in Thor was 100% built around Anthony Hopkins' Odin (and his, SPOILER ALERT, "passing the torch" to Thor and Loki). But they totally sh*it the sheets with that scene. It was AWFUL. Anthony Hopkins came across as phoning it in (and I'm not entirely sure if I blame him as much as I blame the director and his writers).

The drama, which was what drove the story, was weak as f*uck and nearly derailed everything. Fortunately, the jokes were so good, it worked as a dopey buddy comedy movie instead, maybe the best dopey buddy comedy movies ever, and a really fun superhero movie. But don't tell me that JL wasn't MILES AHEAD of Thor in terms of dramatic construct.

Difference was, Thor was a comedy from beginning to end. And for what it was, it hit all the right notes.

JL was played like a dark drama but it came off more embarrassing for it.

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Mon-Ray-Al
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quote:
Originally posted by Armageddon_T_Thunderbird:
I don't think Superman should have died in the first place and that Doomsday was wasted in the BVS movie. Plus, I don't like the whole "Lex created Doomsday" stuff and like it how it was explained in the older comics, he was a Kryptonian experiment that went out of control and found it's way to Earth. Then proceeded to beat everyone's ass until he got to Superman, then beat his ass until they both died. That would have made a good heros coming together to fight an enemy story.

Then in Justice League 2, you have the rise of the Legion of Doom, as they run wild in a world without Superman.

DC wanted to rush things up too much. B v S was pretty much a mix of two gigantic storylines, the Dark Knight Returns and the Death of Superman, plus they tried to form the Justice League in that movie. When you kill Superman on his second outing of his return to the movies, people do not care cause the supposed pain of this great super-hero is not there cause it has not been earned. Plus Superman didn't look much like a hero in either Man of Steel and B v S.

I think you only kill Superman when really he has beaten everybody and you have exausted all the possible threats and assemblage of villains. They could have done it but say 8 years after they did it.

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bitplayer
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JL was horrible. Don't give me that "I liked the battles". The battles were the worst part of the movie. It looks horrible. It's last minute CGI is horrible.

Batman is a totally useless, feckless character in the movie. Aquaman is a surfer bro? Okay. That just makes me not want to see his stand alone movie.

The whole movie feels like it was shot on an empty sound stage. It's a total failure in every way possible.

I hope Cyborg gets rescued and put in a Teen Titans movie.

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The Masked Knight
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quote:
Originally posted by bitplayer:
Batman is a totally useless, feckless character in the movie.

And Ben Affleck knows it too, he tried to get out of the Justice League sequel. They satisfied him by giving him more money and scheduling "The Batman" a stand alone movie

Justice League and the Avengers are not organic teams, like the Fantastic Four or the X-Men (started as teams) They are all star movies. Which sell more toys and other licensed materials. That's why they want them and not stand alone movies.

Affleck's probably going to have to fight the producers of The Batman just to keep them from sticking other superheroes in the movie or using it as a backdoor to introduce yet another superhero.

He realizes now why Christian Bale turned down $100 million to be Batman again in Batman vs. Superman and the Justice League movies

[ 12-06-2017, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: The Masked Knight ]

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Dirko
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Knight:
quote:
Originally posted by bitplayer:
Batman is a totally useless, feckless character in the movie.

And Ben Affleck knows it too, he tried to get out of the Justice League sequel. They satisfied him by giving him more money and scheduling "The Batman" a stand alone movie

Justice League and the Avengers are not organic teams, like the Fantastic Four or the X-Men (started as teams) They are all star movies. Which sell more toys and other licensed materials. That's why they want them and not stand alone movies.

Affleck's probably going to have to fight the producers of The Batman just to keep them from sticking other superheroes in the movie or using it as a backdoor to introduce yet another superhero.

He realizes now why Christian Bale turned down $100 million to be Batman again in Batman vs. Superman and the Justice League movies

There is no reason to turn down $100 million for a silly movie role.

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Back pops
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cbr.com/superhero-movies-better-score-justice-league/amp/

It was doomed by expectation and the stupid Marvel vs DC mentality.

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolverine:
Havent seen the film yet, but without spoiling too much, does the climatic fight take place at night? While it's not a deal-breaker, I just dont get why most superhero films (DC AND Marvel) have to have the climax of the film take place at night (Ragnarok did avert this, but the sky was cloudy during the final battle).

Was shot "underground" (read that: giant green screen). The reason being that it's easier to conceal CGI flaws with underexposed footage than it is with overexposed footage.

"Game of Thrones" is the best in the business at CGI these days, simply because they shoot as much footage as possible totally organically. Practical sets, practical props and effects. But then their CGI team "paints" add-ons. Very rarely do you see anything that's 100% CGI. It gives it a very layered texture and tricks the eye into thinking it's seeing a different realm.

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Knight:
quote:
Originally posted by bitplayer:
Batman is a totally useless, feckless character in the movie.

And Ben Affleck knows it too, he tried to get out of the Justice League sequel. They satisfied him by giving him more money and scheduling "The Batman" a stand alone movie

Justice League and the Avengers are not organic teams, like the Fantastic Four or the X-Men (started as teams) They are all star movies. Which sell more toys and other licensed materials. That's why they want them and not stand alone movies.

Affleck's probably going to have to fight the producers of The Batman just to keep them from sticking other superheroes in the movie or using it as a backdoor to introduce yet another superhero.

He realizes now why Christian Bale turned down $100 million to be Batman again in Batman vs. Superman and the Justice League movies

Wally's fantasy booking the thoughts in Ben Affleck's mind now.

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Risk aka Rob
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quote:
Originally posted by Back pops:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cbr.com/superhero-movies-better-score-justice-league/amp/

It was doomed by expectation and the stupid Marvel vs DC mentality.

No, it was doomed by having an extremely divisive series of lead up movies and the audience literally walked out. Even worse, they didn't just walk out, they didn't show up. 20 days in theaters and the movie still hasn't made what Thor did in one weekend, that speaks volumes.

Eventually, gotta stop blaming fans of this or that and realize that something isn't working.

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Back pops
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But Why when it is a perfectly functional summer blockbuster is it getting slammed harder than movies which are worse than it?
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Handsome Rob from LA
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
As for what made Superman wanna move forward after his untimely demise, you have to understand where he was at the end of Man of Steel.

He was forced to kill Zod to save lives. He was tortured by that. Then when Batman showed up in BvS (blaming him for the property damage done in Metropolis) and the congressional hearings began (making him feel like he had a target on his back), he was having his "Jesus Moment of Doubt." Then when he "died" beating Doomsday, he hadn't even had time to process everything. When they jumpstarted his heart or whatever, all the emotions flooded back at once.

By the time it was sorted out, he understood his place in everything. He had his purpose.

Not sure how that's confusing. It made perfect sense to me and I went with it, instead of picking apart every little detail because it wasn't the movie EYE would've done. This is all very "I only give it three and a half stars because Seth Rollins didn't use the curb stomp" to me.

But can’t I have an opinion since I’m paying to see it? And isn’t that why we like or don’t like art, because we agree or disagree with how it was made, or the tone, or the point it was trying to make?

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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Sure, but I have just as much of a right to point out that your opinion is completely wrong and mine is right.

[ 12-07-2017, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Shaving Weezie Jefferson ]

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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Man of Steel wasn't a great film but I've seen it four times and like it better each time. The biggest weakness is Amy Adams as Lois Lane and a far too emo Clark/Supes.

BvS is a WAY better film than people will admit. Especially if they simply watch the film that was made and not continually review the film they WANTED to be made. I've seen it five times and the director's extended cut is excellent.

I found Suicide Squad entertaining as well. Don't know what else to say. All the recent DC films other than Man of Steel rank above Iron Man 2 and the two Avengers films in my book (and I liked the Avengers films from the get-go and grew to like Iron Man 2 in subsequent viewings).

[ 12-07-2017, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Shaving Weezie Jefferson ]

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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quote:
Originally posted by Back pops:
But Why when it is a perfectly functional summer blockbuster is it getting slammed harder than movies which are worse than it?

Marvel has theme parks they can fly Rotten Tomato-affiliated critics to for junkets. DC does not.

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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And never let it be forgotten that Chris Nolan's Batman trilogy is twice as good as any movie in the entire MCU.

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Handsome Rob from LA
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
Sure, but I have just as much of a right to point out that your opinion is completely wrong and mine is right.

That legit made me LOL.


quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
Man of Steel wasn't a great film but I've seen it four times and like it better each time. The biggest weakness is Amy Adams as Lois Lane and a far too emo Clark/Supes.

BvS is a WAY better film than people will admit. Especially if they simply watch the film that was made and not continually review the film they WANTED to be made. I've seen it five times and the director's extended cut is excellent.

I found Suicide Squad entertaining as well. Don't know what else to say. All the recent DC films other than Man of Steel rank above Iron Man 2 and the two Avengers films in my book (and I liked the Avengers films from the get-go and grew to like Iron Man 2 in subsequent viewings).

I need to watch Man of Steel again. Other than Wonder Woman it was one that I really enjoyed upon first viewing.

BvS felt very long and cluttered to the point where a lot of what happened didn’t really need to. Also it made Batman into a murderer and also Superman was willing to kill Batman as well in order to save his mother.

Suicide Squad, honestly from the popular “Bohemian Rhapsody” trailer I thought we were going to get a crazier off the wall type movie. Sort of an anti-Guardians. What we got was a bunch of villains mopping around about how misunderstood they are. And Leto’s Joker.

The movies I WANTED to see were better than the ones I paid for.

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"Yeah I found the love of my life. But I killed her dog before I had the chance to tell her." Sam Elliott from the movie Shakedown

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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Only Batman wasn't a murderer. That was a dream sequence. It's amazing how many people didn't get that.

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Handsome Rob from LA
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
Only Batman wasn't a murderer. That was a dream sequence. It's amazing how many people didn't get that.

Not that, although the entire JL movie hinges on that dream that somehow was already true because Cyborg’s Dad already had a parademon and motherbox in his lab that no one knew about.

Didn’t he kill the guy with the flamethrower and other henchmen in that fight scene. Also hit another guy with the bat mobile when he and Supes first meet? And exploding cars where they didn’t show anyone exiting so we are to assume they are still in there.

[ 12-07-2017, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Handsome Rob from LA ]

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Risk aka Rob
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quote:
Originally posted by Back pops:
But Why when it is a perfectly functional summer blockbuster is it getting slammed harder than movies which are worse than it?

I don't know what you've been reading, or reviews you've been watching. Everything I've seen, and I've watched many reviews, while the critics did point out problems almost every review I saw had a far more optimistic tone than BvS. Almost every review I can think of ended with something like "Although there are problems, this looks like a turn in the right direction for the DCU and worth a watch." That's far more positive than what BvS got.

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Risk aka Rob
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Wheez brings up a great point about Amy Adams. He also is more privy to how things are "behind the scenes" so I always pay attention to what he says.

Having said that, I loved the Nolan films, I loved the Tim Burton films, those are happy treasured experiences. However, the latest incarnation of the DCU, to me, felt kind of disposable. Sort of like, "none of this really matters and I can forget it 10 minutes after leaving the theater."

I'm not a film critic, I'm not going to spout off any more about what would make a film better or worse.

I'll just say that, although I enjoyed many elements of JL, and the little music tributes during the film definitely were goosebump moments for me, the film as a whole was kind of, "meh." Which isn't to say it was bad, it is to say that I expected a hell of a lot more out of a Justice League movie.

This should have been a huge blockbuster and instead it's struggling to make in 3 weeks what Marvel did in a weekend.

I can't think of any one critic who wields that much power, so I can't blame it all on them. In this day and age, everyone with a twitter account is a critic, otherwise known as word of mouth.

Warner Bros. screwed the pooch on this one. Tons of mistakes that a layman like myself can point to. Even the promotion of the film was screwed up. Why in the hell wasn't Superman in the promotions? What, because he's "Dead?" No. We all saw in BvS that they couldn't wait to give us that spoiler that Superman is only a little bit dead, but he'll be back.

If we're objective, there have been a lot of failures with this whole DC Universe from the start.

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Risk aka Rob
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I also don't think we need all the backstories, especially as it related to Batman. We've all seen every possible way that the Wayne's died, we don't need to see it again.

Everybody knows Superman's backstory. I mean come on, it's just the most recognizable fictional character of all time and you're going to try to tell me that his backstory needs to be told, Again?

Sure, spend some time on Cyborg and maybe Aquaman. I'm a bit vague on their backstories but pretty much the rest of the team, everybody already knows the back story to the point of parody.

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The Masked Knight
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This complaining is nothing compared to the uproar when the first Batman movie came out. Michael Keaton as Batman? Kim Basinger? The Joker killed Bruce Wayne's parents? But it was still a good movie. It isn't casting or bad plot twists that make a movie bad, it's the lack of developement of the characters and/or a bad story

[ 12-07-2017, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: The Masked Knight ]

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Knight:
It isn't casting or bad plot twists that make a movie bad, it's the lack of developement of the characters and/or a bad story

Actually, it can be any of those things, all of those things, or something else altogether. But I get what you're saying.

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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quote:
Originally posted by Risk aka Rob:
I also don't think we need all the backstories, especially as it related to Batman. We've all seen every possible way that the Wayne's died, we don't need to see it again.

Everybody knows Superman's backstory. I mean come on, it's just the most recognizable fictional character of all time and you're going to try to tell me that his backstory needs to be told, Again?

Sure, spend some time on Cyborg and maybe Aquaman. I'm a bit vague on their backstories but pretty much the rest of the team, everybody already knows the back story to the point of parody.

I'd would've given my left testicle to script Aquaman.

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"Okay fun is fun but enough is enough, and so on. We do not need half the front page beening Tocus threads. The old ones have been kicked over to the Markley forum...otherwise the whole gimmick can go over there." --Crimson Mask, 3/18/11

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Risk aka Rob
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
quote:
Originally posted by Risk aka Rob:
I also don't think we need all the backstories, especially as it related to Batman. We've all seen every possible way that the Wayne's died, we don't need to see it again.

Everybody knows Superman's backstory. I mean come on, it's just the most recognizable fictional character of all time and you're going to try to tell me that his backstory needs to be told, Again?

Sure, spend some time on Cyborg and maybe Aquaman. I'm a bit vague on their backstories but pretty much the rest of the team, everybody already knows the back story to the point of parody.

I'd would've given my left testicle to script Aquaman.
Speaking of Aquaman, and yes I'd like to see your version, WB kind of screwed up the failed "Tension" between him and the Atlantians. All of that could have been cut out.

Simple scene, IMHO, is all that was needed "People going about their Roman-esque Atlantian business, big boom in the middle of the city, lots of carnage, Steppenwolf does his thing, breaks into the super secure building where the mother box was and after mass destruction and mayhem he leaves with the box.

Aquaman arrives after the fact and there's instant tension "Where were you when we needed you?" Simple, loud and explosionous, easy to understand. Cause that whole spat lacked any gravitas and was confusing as hell.

I admit that I don't know anything about Aquaman except what I watched on Saturday Morning Justice League cartoons in the 80s.

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Risk aka Rob
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Cyborg, I know less about him than Aquaman.

Where did his father get a mother box to make his son into a cyborg? How did he know how to use it? All these civilizations who've kept these boxes for who knows how long haven't a clue exactly what they are but this human just uses it like it's nothing. Huh?

I guess that would explain why Cyborg knew to use the box on Superman's body but it wasn't even his idea in the first place, it was Batman's and Batman only just learned about their existence so what makes him think this grave robbing caper to bring Supes back would even work?

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Mon-Ray-Al
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
quote:
Originally posted by Wolverine:
Havent seen the film yet, but without spoiling too much, does the climatic fight take place at night? While it's not a deal-breaker, I just dont get why most superhero films (DC AND Marvel) have to have the climax of the film take place at night (Ragnarok did avert this, but the sky was cloudy during the final battle).

Was shot "underground" (read that: giant green screen). The reason being that it's easier to conceal CGI flaws with underexposed footage than it is with overexposed footage.

"Game of Thrones" is the best in the business at CGI these days, simply because they shoot as much footage as possible totally organically. Practical sets, practical props and effects. But then their CGI team "paints" add-ons. Very rarely do you see anything that's 100% CGI. It gives it a very layered texture and tricks the eye into thinking it's seeing a different realm.

And when they do CGI creatures, it seems like they took their time cause their dragons are magnificent. When I first saw one of their grown up dragons in season 5, I was astounded of how it looked compared to other bigger budget flicks where the dragons looked awful and cheap. This is a TV show and boom they produced a realistic dragon on their first try. They can't do no wrong, these people.

quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
And never let it be forgotten that Chris Nolan's Batman trilogy is twice as good as any movie in the entire MCU.

I will say that BB and Dark Knight are better than most Marvel movies.

DKR is rather mediocre. Too overblown, nonsensical plot, nothing that memorable.

Since Marvel Studios came together I would rank DC and Marvel(studios) movies this way:

1. Dark Knight
2. Iron Man
3. Batman Begins
4, Avengers
5. Winter Soldier
6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Civil War
8. Thor 3
9. Ant-Man
10.Wonder Woman

[ 12-08-2017, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Mon-Ray-Al ]

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Risk aka Rob
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I just heard that after 21 days in theaters, JL, has finally surpassed what Avengers made during opening weekend.

I don't care, you just can't blame that sort of failure on critics. It's obvious that the audience had had enough of the "Snydervers" (I've got nothing against Zack Snyder as a director mind you) and they did what has traditionally been called dollar votes in that they didn't want to shell out the cash to feel gipped again.

There have been lots of movies in the past that were hated by critics that went on to have tremendous commercial success. So at this point, I'm just really tired of hearing, not so much here on WCMB but in other places, that the critics caused JL to fail.

No they damn well didn't, Warner Brothers and a misguided vision for the DCU caused JL to fail. If you look at the graph for DCU opening weekend takes you'll see a clear line of diminishing returns. Wonder Woman was saved by follow up weekends because word got out that the movie was actually good and that's what word of mouth can do.

So just as word of mouth can save Wonder Woman it can just as easily kill JL but that's not due to critics, that's people talking to each other. In any case, after BvS it looks like audiences had had enough.

Now I'm hearing that there has been some monumental shakeups at Warner Brothers. Zack Snyder is out, and lots of other people have either been demoted or fired. Also, it seems like Warner Brothers is planning to do all future DC films more in house rather than having a dedicated studio to create them like Marvel does. This is probably the right call.

Yes, I absolutely believe that this whole thing needs to get rebooted after Aquaman comes out. Though that movies possible saving grace is that it's got a year for people to cool down. Though I'm guessing it's not going to be a huge commercial success, but you never know, it might be good and basically do what Wonder Woman did.

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Handsome Rob from LA
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quote:
Originally posted by Risk aka Rob:
I also don't think we need all the backstories, especially as it related to Batman. We've all seen every possible way that the Wayne's died, we don't need to see it again.

Everybody knows Superman's backstory. I mean come on, it's just the most recognizable fictional character of all time and you're going to try to tell me that his backstory needs to be told, Again?

Sure, spend some time on Cyborg and maybe Aquaman. I'm a bit vague on their backstories but pretty much the rest of the team, everybody already knows the back story to the point of parody.

When I complained about backstories I mainly was talking about the fact they introduced 4 new characters that we needed to know and care about in someway. Yes Bats, Supes, and WW have already been established in movies and tv for decades, WW had her movie just months prior. But you had Cyborg, Aquaman, Flash, and understating who the hell Steppenwolf was, plus bringing back Superman. It was just too much and you can't give weight to everything, same as a movie having too many villains.

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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Rob, your logic doesn't make sense. The idea that people were staying away from JL based on BvS makes sense until you bring up how well Wonder Woman did with word of mouth. Wonder Woman is IN JL, so the film should've gotten a bounce from her.

If you wanna lay it at Snyder's feet, then you could just as easily point out that Whedon took over and reshoot/recut a good portion of the film (so theoretically, the Marvel fanboys should've jumped on out of love for his overrated Avenger movies).

Fact is, there's a big negative DC vibe and a lot of it comes from the Rotten Tomatoes aggregated bullsh*it (I HATE Rotten Tomatoes and all it stands for, may the ghosts of Siskel & Ebert urinate on that abomination from the great beyond).

"Critics"/Social media flame carriers had far more to do with JL underperforming than actual Russians had to do with Hillary losing the election. Just as Hillary could've righted her ship (not picking Kaine, not alienating progressives, not lying about minor things when the truth was just as good, not supporting fracking, not supporting prison-for-profit schemes, etc, etc, etc), JL could've done certain things to hit more homeruns, but...no way in hell was BvS and JL as bad as you're making them out.

There's no need for a "reboot." Just some retooling. And the great thing about the motion picture industry is...every individual project is essentially a reboot. Jason Momoa is a great Aquaman. Ezra Miller was tremendous as The Flash (even though I protested that they didn't integrate Grant Gustin into the mix for "continuity" purposes). Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman. Nothing that needs to be revamped. I honestly have no opinion on Cyborg (he wasn't a character involved with the JLA during the time I was a reader) but I didn't dislike what the film did with introducing him.

All that needs to be done with the next film is the same that needs to be done with any film. Come up with a good story, a good script, and market the hell out of the concept. If they hit on something the geeks will go apedookey over, and come out with a trailer that gives everyone goosebumps, the next one will be a hit. It's pro wrestling. The second WB unveils a teaser at Comic Con where Green Lantern shows up to save the day, everybody will be jones'in.

As for WB going "in-house" vs what Marvel does, not even sure what that means. Marvel is technically "in-house" at Disney (even if they have stayed hands off, letting Feig and the geeks run the show, at least until they turn out a bomb). WB has partnered with Chris Nolan, Legend, and Relativity since the early 2000s (no different than any other project that gets greenlighted under "shingle deals"). The "studio system" really isn't what people think it is. It doesn't exist as it once did. Films mostly get greenlighted at the packaging level (a producer buys/licenses a property, or pitches a studio that owns it, and brings financing or attachments, usually under the auspices of a major agency like CAA, WME, ICM, etc).

If WB wants to "Marvelize" things, maybe they should just poach their team. I'm just not sure the world needs two Marvels. I kinda like DC for DC and Marvel for Marvel.

[ 12-09-2017, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Shaving Weezie Jefferson ]

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