WrestlingClassics.com Message Board Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» WrestlingClassics.com Message Board » Professional Wrestling & General Discussion 2010 - Current » Biggest stains on the business (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Biggest stains on the business
Grobbit
Member
Member # 80932

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Grobbit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was thinking of guys who, in one way or another, were a major detriment to the sport of wrestling.

1. Vince Russo. No explanation needed

2. Vince McMahon. Did more to kill wrestling than anyone else, replaced good workers and exciting matches with cartoon garbage badly acted out by drug-fuelled guys with more muscles than talent. Then re-invented WWF/WWE into a fifth-rate soap opera about wrestling rather than an actual wrestling promotion.

3. Hulk Hogan. Epitomised everything bad about Wrestling in the 80s and 90s, a cartoon freakshow orange pile of muscle who didn't have enough actual wrestling ability to get beyond opening match but because he was tall and took a lot of steroids, he had the right look. Oh, and you know something brother, the dude was one of the worst promos of all-time too, regardless of how much coke he shoved up his nose beforehand.

4. Eddie Mansfield. As Jim Cornette memorably said - how did someone not murder this guy?

5. Eric Bischoff. See Vince Russo.

6. Kevin Nash. Even less talent than Hulk Hogan, did all he could to undermine both WWF and WCW with his backstage politicking .

7. Ian Rotten. Geez, where to start, the man is an utter scumbag in every aspect.

8. Shawn Michaels. No way is he even close to the best worker of all time, his 90s antics and pouting and refusing to put people over made him a rotten human being, then when no-one else would talk to him, he conveniently found God. I grew up in a time when wrestlers were tough guys, made you think they could crush you with one hand, but Michaels... puhleez, I coulda whipped him. Anyways, he ruined wrestling in a big way for me personally.

9. Jose Gonzalez AKA Invader I. 1988, a shower stall, a knife he had peed on and a brutal murder. The man should have swung for his crime.

10. Paul Heyman. For popularising the 'maim yourself for almost no money in front of a handful of smarks' style of wrestling and ripping off pretty much everyone he ever did business with.

11. New Jack. Yes, he cuts a good promo, but has no place inside a ring at any time or place as the only ability he possesses is to hit people with weapons and to bleed. Tried to kill an opponent by throwing him off a scaffold, attacked Gypsy Joe in a disgusting manner, sliced Mass Transit like he was a Thanksgiving Turkey, the number of his out of order actions is too long to list.

I know some of those will be controversial, but hey, it's all about personal opinions, right?

So let's hear who you really despise for their impact on wrestling.

[ 04-18-2017, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: Grobbit ]

--------------------
"If I hit him with the left hand and he's still standing, I will walk around him to see whats holding him up." - Harley Race

IP: Logged
Gov't Mule
Member
Member # 2440

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gov't Mule     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I love that a murderer is only 9th on your list.
IP: Logged
HEN from MS
Member
Member # 3801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for HEN from MS   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gov't Mule:
I love that a murderer is only 9th on your list.

And it's not even the one I immediately thought of when reading the thread title. Maybe I'm kind of missing the point of the subject.

--------------------
"Yip!" -- Jumpin' Jeff Farmer

IP: Logged
Grobbit
Member
Member # 80932

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Grobbit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The numbers are in no way any indicator of ranking, it wasn't a 'top 10' I just listed them as they came to mind, so the number is just a number, not a rating in any sort of hierarchy.

--------------------
"If I hit him with the left hand and he's still standing, I will walk around him to see whats holding him up." - Harley Race

IP: Logged
TerryR
Member
Member # 5671

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TerryR     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Kevin Nash is interesting. Without him, the NWO is not hot (or, funnily enough, cool). Without the NWO, does wrestling get hot again?

His politicking is annoying to read about for sure, but in truth, I should have done the same a bit more at my own job.

Now did Nash cost himself in the long run?

He helped make wrestling hot, took advantage of that spot, but in the meantime did he hurt what he helped make by doing so?

IP: Logged
The Midnight Lurker
Member
Member # 1084

Icon 1 posted      Profile for The Midnight Lurker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No Chris Benoit?
IP: Logged
Grobbit
Member
Member # 80932

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Grobbit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Midnight Lurker:
No Chris Benoit?

I almost included him, and he does deserve a place.

However, what he did, as reprehensible as it was, had a positive effect on wrestling in some ways - it made people look more seriously at brain injuries and treat concussions and it also made people take 'wellness' issues more seriously and perhaps made people think twice about what drugs they put in their bodies.

That said, in no way am I ever going to defend any aspect of the way Benoit's life ended, it was a horrible tragedy and indefensible imho.

--------------------
"If I hit him with the left hand and he's still standing, I will walk around him to see whats holding him up." - Harley Race

IP: Logged
jorjorbynks
Member
Member # 12312

Icon 1 posted      Profile for jorjorbynks     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Without Nash (and to a degree Bischoff) wrestlers today would not have the guaranteed contracts that they now enjoy. The WWE would still be "giving people opportunities" if they hadn't been forced into providing guaranteed contracts during the Monday Night Wars.

So based on that, I wouldn't include Nash on the list.

--------------------
Pro Wrestling is neither real nor fake. It's magic!

IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grobbit:
quote:
Originally posted by The Midnight Lurker:
No Chris Benoit?

I almost included him, and he does deserve a place.

However, what he did, as reprehensible as it was, had a positive effect on wrestling in some ways - it made people look more seriously at brain injuries and treat concussions and it also made people take 'wellness' issues more seriously and perhaps made people think twice about what drugs they put in their bodies.

That said, in no way am I ever going to defend any aspect of the way Benoit's life ended, it was a horrible tragedy and indefensible imho.

Benoit had great matches but his positive impact on the biz was probably less than the majority of the people on this list. Even Russo in a way (not for his sh*itty "writing" but the fact that he conned McMahon into ripping off Heyman's ideas), Heyman himself for being so creative, Nash for jumping promotions, Bischoff for all his innovation with WCW, Hogan, etc. No matter how much we smarks think the suck and no matter how much they would eventually become a detriment, they did contribute positively in some way (way more than Benoit, who was a huge fan of).

[ 04-18-2017, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: Shaving Weezie Jefferson ]

IP: Logged
the bear
Member
Member # 1565

Icon 1 posted      Profile for the bear     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Benoit and Zumhofe belong here

if refusing to put someone over makes you a rotten human being, what does child murder and pedophilia make you?

[ 04-18-2017, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: the bear ]

--------------------
Check out my Wrestling collection - Now over 14000 DVD's
http://www.freewebs.com/cbenee/

IP: Logged
Pbhero
Member
Member # 81542

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Pbhero     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by the bear:
Benoit and Zumhofe belong here

if refusing to put someone over makes you a rotten human being, what does child murder and pedophilia make you?

This...X 100.
IP: Logged
brawler2711
Member
Member # 26849

Icon 1 posted      Profile for brawler2711     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Regarding you first standard smart mark internet entry.

Without the attitude era and Russo urging Vince to change things there may be no WWE today.

They went from rags to riches bro.

Russo had the Spaldings bro to get everyone over on the card bro.

Stone Cold was on Russos podcast today bro addressing how to get over that creative hump in WWE and needing to establish a relationship with the old man bro.

Listen here bro.

http://podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=880&pid=1725887

Stone Cold Steve Austin returns to THE BRAND, as he and Vince discuss such topics as; getting HIMSELF over, getting today's talent "out of the box", talent needing to form a relationship with WWE Brass, thoughts on AJ Styles, the ONE GUY he's chose to mentor in the WWE and the booking of Braun Strowman. Telling it like it is, with no limits and no agenda, this is simply Steve Austin being Steve Austin! Can't miss!

--------------------
"I'll be with 20 in-laws...hhhmmm..we'll see. But, 7 of the 20 are my nieces (in their early to mid 20's), so I'll enjoy seeing a few of them at the pool, and on the beach.At least the "scenery" should be enjoyable. [Smile]"
Sir Tojo

IP: Logged
Gov't Mule
Member
Member # 2440

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Gov't Mule     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Who was the Russo mark from back in the day, Marty 2 Hotty? We sure brawler ain't he same guy?
IP: Logged
brawler2711
Member
Member # 26849

Icon 1 posted      Profile for brawler2711     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In all honesty Mule, would you rather watch a Raw from today or one from 1998?

[ 04-18-2017, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: brawler2711 ]

--------------------
"I'll be with 20 in-laws...hhhmmm..we'll see. But, 7 of the 20 are my nieces (in their early to mid 20's), so I'll enjoy seeing a few of them at the pool, and on the beach.At least the "scenery" should be enjoyable. [Smile]"
Sir Tojo

IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brawler2711:
In all honesty Mule, would you rather watch a Raw from today or one from 1998?

Nitro?
IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually no, 1982 Crockett, 1986 Mid-South, or 1995 ECW. F*uck everything with Vince Russo.
IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Or NXT today.
IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brawler2711:

Without the attitude era and Russo urging Vince to change things there may be no WWE today.


Be more specific.

Without Russo urging Vince to STEAL ALL OF PAUL HEYMAN'S IDEAS and infuse them with references, characters, and stories he STOLE from watching movies at his video store...

IP: Logged
davephlegmball
Member
Member # 5163

Icon 1 posted      Profile for davephlegmball     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Biggest stains"

Thought this was gonna be about Uncle Elmer's outfit.

IP: Logged
brawler2711
Member
Member # 26849

Icon 1 posted      Profile for brawler2711     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by the bear:
Benoit and Zumhofe belong here

if refusing to put someone over makes you a rotten human being, what does child murder and pedophilia make you?

Keep in mind, in the marks world a guy that murdered his family wont make the list because "he was a good worker"...that's how clouded this fan base is.

--------------------
"I'll be with 20 in-laws...hhhmmm..we'll see. But, 7 of the 20 are my nieces (in their early to mid 20's), so I'll enjoy seeing a few of them at the pool, and on the beach.At least the "scenery" should be enjoyable. [Smile]"
Sir Tojo

IP: Logged
tamalie from MN
Member
Member # 1138

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tamalie from MN     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Whatever one thinks of Vince McMahon and the WWF/WWE, he only accelerated a death of the territories that was inevitable for a variety of reasons anyway and established a promotion that enables pro wrestling to exist at a major league level which I doubt would be the case now had he not expanded.
IP: Logged
Tatsuya
Member
Member # 80195

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Tatsuya     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by davephlegmball:
"Biggest stains"

Thought this was gonna be about Uncle Elmer's outfit.

Or Pat Patterson's underwear
IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brawler2711:
quote:
Originally posted by the bear:
Benoit and Zumhofe belong here

if refusing to put someone over makes you a rotten human being, what does child murder and pedophilia make you?

Keep in mind, in the marks world a guy that murdered his family wont make the list because "he was a good worker"...that's how clouded this fan base is.
Was one guy's opinion, not indicative of any "fan base." Benoit would top most people's list.

Vince Russo still sucks.

IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In fact, Chris Benoit could kill half of eastern Europe and Vince Russo would still suck.
IP: Logged
Tatsuya
Member
Member # 80195

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Tatsuya     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One thing that sticks out reading the back issues of the Observer from 1999 and 2000 is that most of the talent, especially the younger ones, liked and supported Russo because he was trying give them a push.

Given all the hoopla the last couple of weeks, surprised JBL isnt mentioned in this thread.

IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chris Benoit could be Hitler, King Herod, and Satan all rolled into one and if someone asked "Who sucks?" The answer would still be "Vince Russo."
IP: Logged
sam the lion from WA
Member
Member # 1154

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sam the lion from WA   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by the bear:
Benoit and Zumhofe belong here

if refusing to put someone over makes you a rotten human being, what does child murder and pedophilia make you?

Plus Bob Sweetan

--------------------
The magic, that is on those tapes, you don't own THAT!!

Reid Rothchild

IP: Logged
John Williamson
Member
Member # 127199

Icon 1 posted      Profile for John Williamson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chris Benoit and all the child abusers.
IP: Logged
A Gene Wilder Somersault
Member
Member # 128207

Icon 1 posted      Profile for A Gene Wilder Somersault     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
Chris Benoit could be Hitler, King Herod, and Satan all rolled into one and if someone asked "Who sucks?" The answer would still be "Vince Russo."

Man this is so true, and so absurd.
IP: Logged
Grobbit
Member
Member # 80932

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Grobbit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tatsuya:
One thing that sticks out reading the back issues of the Observer from 1999 and 2000 is that most of the talent, especially the younger ones, liked and supported Russo because he was trying give them a push.

Given all the hoopla the last couple of weeks, surprised JBL isnt mentioned in this thread.

I very nearly put JBL in my list, but he is probably less of a bully/hazer than many who went before him, I mean, didn' Mr Fuji cook someone's dog once?

--------------------
"If I hit him with the left hand and he's still standing, I will walk around him to see whats holding him up." - Harley Race

IP: Logged
Londo from MN
Member
Member # 1945

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Londo from MN     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gov't Mule:
Who was the Russo mark from back in the day, Marty 2 Hotty? We sure brawler ain't he same guy?

What's Tojo up to this weekend?

Thanks for the post.

IP: Logged
Kilroy
Member
Member # 53

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kilroy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grobbit:
I was thinking of guys who, in one way or another, were a major detriment to the sport of wrestling.

1. Vince Russo. No explanation needed

2. Vince McMahon. Did more to kill wrestling than anyone else, replaced good workers and exciting matches with cartoon garbage badly acted out by drug-fuelled guys with more muscles than talent. Then re-invented WWF/WWE into a fifth-rate soap opera about wrestling rather than an actual wrestling promotion.

3. Hulk Hogan. Epitomised everything bad about Wrestling in the 80s and 90s, a cartoon freakshow orange pile of muscle who didn't have enough actual wrestling ability to get beyond opening match but because he was tall and took a lot of steroids, he had the right look. Oh, and you know something brother, the dude was one of the worst promos of all-time too, regardless of how much coke he shoved up his nose beforehand.

4. Eddie Mansfield. As Jim Cornette memorably said - how did someone not murder this guy?

5. Eric Bischoff. See Vince Russo.

6. Kevin Nash. Even less talent than Hulk Hogan, did all he could to undermine both WWF and WCW with his backstage politicking .

7. Ian Rotten. Geez, where to start, the man is an utter scumbag in every aspect.

8. Shawn Michaels. No way is he even close to the best worker of all time, his 90s antics and pouting and refusing to put people over made him a rotten human being, then when no-one else would talk to him, he conveniently found God. I grew up in a time when wrestlers were tough guys, made you think they could crush you with one hand, but Michaels... puhleez, I coulda whipped him. Anyways, he ruined wrestling in a big way for me personally.

9. Jose Gonzalez AKA Invader I. 1988, a shower stall, a knife he had peed on and a brutal murder. The man should have swung for his crime.

10. Paul Heyman. For popularising the 'maim yourself for almost no money in front of a handful of smarks' style of wrestling and ripping off pretty much everyone he ever did business with.

11. New Jack. Yes, he cuts a good promo, but has no place inside a ring at any time or place as the only ability he possesses is to hit people with weapons and to bleed. Tried to kill an opponent by throwing him off a scaffold, attacked Gypsy Joe in a disgusting manner, sliced Mass Transit like he was a Thanksgiving Turkey, the number of his out of order actions is too long to list.

I know some of those will be controversial, but hey, it's all about personal opinions, right?

So let's hear who you really despise for their impact on wrestling.

soooo, your list of "Stains on the business" is just mostly a list of guys you don't care for? Because that's what your list is..
IP: Logged
Curt Injurker
Member
Member # 6203

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Curt Injurker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm more pro than con Vince McMahon (call it, ehh, 60/40), and I know that (seems to) put me in the minority on this board, but I have an honest question as it pertains to being a stain on wrestling:

Without him, what would stop professional wrestling from going the way of the circus, the carnival ,the Ice Capades, the Harlem Globetrotters, and other touring/live attractions?

IP: Logged
Austin Idle
Member
Member # 119843

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Austin Idle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I would think Dynamite Kid should be included.
IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Curt Injurker:


Without him, what would stop professional wrestling from going the way of the circus, the carnival ,the Ice Capades, the Harlem Globetrotters, and other touring/live attractions?

Some other promoter going national and figuring out how to do all the marketing stuff without driving away two thirds of the audience the way Vince did?
IP: Logged
Curt Injurker
Member
Member # 6203

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Curt Injurker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Wheezie Jefferson:

Some other promoter going national and figuring out how to do all the marketing stuff without driving away two thirds of the audience the way Vince did?

Can you do "all the marketing stuff" with a 60 minute Brisco-Funk match (which I, like most here, I prefer to the WWF product)?

The only competition on a national level Vince ever had -- -real competition -- was when Turner financed a Bischoff-led WCW to play Vince's Greatest Hits. It isn't a happy coincidence that the best marketer just happened to produce the type of product that strayed most from the industry's previous standard - that "new" product is by and large the reason he survived. There is no proof of concept that traditional wrestling, as we loved it, could translate to a national/global audience.

Wake up a successful Vaudevillian from the 1910's, show him this season's worth of Saturday Night Live episodes, and he would probably be amazed at how bad the sketches are, how no straight men anchor the jokes, and how no sketches resolve properly. But that's what vaudeville had to evolve in to to stay relevant. Wrestling is no different than every other medium that evolved as the platform of distribution changed. To say that these changes are coincidence, and not governed by the consumers who adapt to these new platforms (in wrestling's case, cable and national syndication) wants would be, in my opinion, inaccurate.

IP: Logged
the bear
Member
Member # 1565

Icon 1 posted      Profile for the bear     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Is it possible to stain a business who's fans consider booking bad angles and refusing to lose a pretend fight to be worse than f-----g a kid??? [Big Grin]

--------------------
Check out my Wrestling collection - Now over 14000 DVD's
http://www.freewebs.com/cbenee/

IP: Logged
Steve Ogilvie
Member
Member # 5116

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve Ogilvie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kilroy:
soooo, your list of "Stains on the business" is just mostly a list of guys you don't care for? Because that's what your list is..

Welcome to understanding Grobbit.

--------------------
"Mr 100%"

IP: Logged
Shaving Weezie Jefferson
Member
Member # 126638

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shaving Weezie Jefferson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Curt Injurker:
quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Wheezie Jefferson:

Some other promoter going national and figuring out how to do all the marketing stuff without driving away two thirds of the audience the way Vince did?

Can you do "all the marketing stuff" with a 60 minute Brisco-Funk match (which I, like most here, I prefer to the WWF product)?


Considering that Brisco and Funk hadn't wrestled a 60 min match for 10 years prior to Vince's expansion (and both the Briscos and the Funks were on board with the WWF when the war started), that's kind of a false equivalency.

If Vince hadn't done it, someone else might've. And there could've been a zillion butterfly effect things along the way that would've made that happen. An Eddie Einhorn aligning with Crockett or Watts or something. A Watts getting on board with Turner coupled with money from some toy company or whatever, yada yada.

I think people over-sell the whole "Vince took things in the right direction" nonsense. He drove away way more fans than he created and just because what he turned the biz into worked for him, doesn't mean that a hard turn in the opposite direction wouldn't have worked for someone else.

Game of Thrones and Walking Dead have way bigger audiences and make way more TV revenue than WWE. If Vince took over those shows, he'd want less blood to appease Mattel, more poopey jokes to appeal to his own redneck 11 yr old trailer trash self, and in the end, he'd drive away probably two-thirds of those shows' audiences too.

Vince made it easier to make money off the T-shirt. But he made it harder to make money off the art. As Disney (with Marvel and Lucasfilm in tow) and Netflix have proven, when a company puts people in charge who love and appreciate the art, they put their finger on the pulse and generate insane revenue. No wrestler is ever gonna get a $500k-a-week Monday Night Raw paycheck the way Andy Lincoln does. And that's because Vince has set up his niche plantation.

Someone else might've done things differently.

[ 04-18-2017, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Shaving Weezie Jefferson ]

IP: Logged
Curt Injurker
Member
Member # 6203

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Curt Injurker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Wheezie Jefferson:

I think people over-sell the whole "Vince took things in the right direction" nonsense. He drove away way more fans than he created and just because what he turned the biz into worked for him, doesn't mean that a hard turn in the opposite direction wouldn't have worked for someone else.

Given the way other forms of barnstorming entertainment lost market share with the advent of tv and, then, cable, I just don't think it's fair to characterize what he did as "driving away fans." Maybe I had Adam Smith economic principles drilled in to me too much in school, but I have to believe the resulting product was what the shrinking (whether Vince acted or not) market would bear, and he actually maintained a greater amount of a dwindling audience than other forms of entertainment that parallel wrestling (circus, carnival, horse racing, etc).

quote:
Vince made it easier to make money off the T-shirt. But he made it harder to make money off the art. As Disney (with Marvel and Lucasfilm in tow) and Netflix have proven, when a company puts people in charge who love and appreciate the art, they put their finger on the pulse and generate insane revenue.
Now this is a sentiment I could not agree more with. In my opinion, the biggest underlying mistake the current WWE product makes is running AWAY from its base of fans. Disney has shown, through its treatment of both its Marvel and Star Wars properties, that playing to and appeasing your core base is the move. It's a move that has grown both "core" fan sets as new/young fans want to consume the properties in the same exhaustive, comprehensive manner as longtime fans, and longtime casual fans are won over, over time, by the infectiousness of the anticipation and joy of the fan base. Die hard wrestling fans might be smaller in number than Marvel or Star Wars fans, but they are just as rabid, and generate just as much infectious enthusiasm. (Look no further than WWE fans at prominent tastemaking sites like Deadspin making Braun a phenomenon over the last 8 days). Vince should absolutely be leaning in to this fan base instead of leaning away or, in some cases, openly antagonizing them.

Apologies if this response strays too far from the original topic.

IP: Logged
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | WrestlingClassics.com Home Page

Click here to see the WCMB Rules and Regulations

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3