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Author Topic: Most underated big star ever
brawler2711
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My vote goes to Bob Orton Jr.

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John Williamson
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Hulk Hogan.
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Gov't Mule
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Barry Windham
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A Gene Wilder Somersault
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Hogan or maybe Sid. Randy Orton today
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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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Alex Chilton.
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davephlegmball
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Was Eddie Gilbert a "big star?"

Depends on who is doing the rating, and what the definition of "big star" is. I wouldn't call Bob Orton Jr. a "big star."

Fred Blassie was a "big star" no matter how you look at it--he was on TV coast-to-coast; famous in Japan; easily recognizable to any wrestling fan. Underrated? Maybe.

Underrated in what sense?

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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quote:
Originally posted by davephlegmball:
I wouldn't call Bob Orton Jr. a "big star."


Orton headlined MSG at Backlund, had big runs in most of the territories, was part of the angle that set up the first Starrcade, and part of the main event mix at the first Wrestlemania. I'd say he was "a big star." Not a mega star but a big star.

Not sure how a "big star" can be underrated though. If people think you're a big star, you must be "rated" pretty well.

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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And unless you read the Apter mags (or remembered rasslin' from the 1950s), a lot of people in many territories couldn't pick Blassie out of a police lineup.

[ 04-14-2017, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Shaving Weezie Jefferson ]

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Travlr
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Dick Hutton

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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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In all honesty? Two of the biggest "underrated big stars" of all time?

John Cena and Roman Reigns.

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The Fake J.D. McKay
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We have to remember that George Gulas had a really big run. He qualifies.
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Crimson Mask from FL
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:

Not sure how a "big star" can be underrated

Was my first thought, but on second thought I can see how. Not getting deserved credit for ability.

So long from the Sunshine State!

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OSJ from NM by way of WA
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Without including the qualification of "according to... or in what context" This question just becomes a quagmire. The OP cites Bob Orton jr., but I have a real problem considering a guy that was always at or near the top of the top of the card during his career, and is highly thought-of as one of the best of his generation wherever he went as "underrated".

As for some of the others:

Barry Windham - generally thought of as one of the best workers of his generation.
Hulk Hogan - interesting choice, he's gone from being considered a waste of space to being pimped so hard by some that he's almost become "overrated"!
Sid Vicious/Justice - We've come quite away from "Softball Sid Sucks" to the consensus that he was "okay". I'd be interested in any argument put forward that would consider him much better than "passable".
Dick Hutton - Trave suggests him and since all we have is a pretty darn short career tacked on to a very memorable amatuer run, hard to say that he's "underrated" (at least by the folks around here). Yeah, he probably wouldn't get too much traction from a SDL crowd, but there ya go...

Finally, Richard comments on Blassie and suggests Roman & Cena... As to the former, (as I always do with wrestlers from the 1940s-1960s) I turn it over to memories of my rather large extended-family of the previous generation, who were NOT wrestling fans... However, being an annoying brat, that was a subject that I wanted to talk about and I was usually relentless with the line of questions that started with Uncle____, who was your favorite wrestler when you were my age? Bottom line, any wrestler that was recalled by these generally baseball/football only fans, (such as any of my great-uncles) had to be a pretty big deal. Blassie was certainly know in this context.
As for Cena & Roman, I think that among people who know their stuff, that the perception of these two guys has flip-flopped so much that they are in danger of being overrated..

As for Randy Orton, that's an odd one... When motivated, he can be a joy to watch, however, those occasions are becoming fewer and fewer.

Based on conversation from another board that I frequent, I'll nominate "The Miz"! Yes, he's coming off of perhaps his best year ever, and he's cut some delightfully "shooty" promos on Daniel Bryan, but that's been about it. When the time comes to deliver in the ring, the "King of Safe Style" is pretty darn pedestrian, yet to have heard some of these guys, the Miz was cutting Cornette-level promos while delivering Eddie Guerrero-level matches week in, week out, yeah, that's overrated...

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Ta-Kargol, Lord Of The Volcano
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DDP

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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:

Not sure how a "big star" can be underrated

Was my first thought, but on second thought I can see how. Not getting deserved credit for ability.

So long from the Sunshine State!

Hogan in Japan might actually qualify him then.
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gulascantfoolus
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
And unless you read the Apter mags (or remembered rasslin' from the 1950s), a lot of people in many territories couldn't pick Blassie out of a police lineup.

they'd mistakenly ID him as Rikidozan.......hey somebody was gonna say it

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gulascantfoolus
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quote:
Originally posted by The Fake J.D. McKay:
We have to remember that George Gulas had a really big run. He qualifies.

Just think if he had been an Aggie

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Pbhero
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Not a fan, but Jeff Hardy is always super over...and is a big star....and not held in much regard by many.
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Travlr
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When we batted around a variation of this question six or seven years ago, a surprising name came out of it, primarily because in a thread or two that was getting some traffic at the time was all about NWAlliance champs. And one name got completely missed in the discussions. And no, it wasn't Dick Hutton (although much discussion about why he got the pick and his drawing power and so forth). It was a name that, when pointed out, made pretty much all of us go, "Jayzus, how could we forget him?"

And that was Pat O'Connor.

For what is generally a savvy bunch of guys about "the boys", that we'd all leave out such an important figure I think says something about him being "under-rated".

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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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M.DuPree
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Wilbur Snyder

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midsouthfan from N.O.
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quote:
Originally posted by brawler2711:
My vote goes to Bob Orton Jr.

My first thought absolutely!!!
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merc
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Billy Robinson fit into this discussion? Titles all over, wrestled everywhere, cept (maybe) the WWWF and is largely forgotten today.
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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by M.DuPree:
Wilbur Snyder

I'd put him high on my list....

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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Wolverine
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Marty Jannetty. Most people think of him as "The Other Rocker", but he was just as enjoyable as a singles competitor.
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Bnicholas
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quote:
Originally posted by OSJ from NM by way of WA:
Without including the qualification of "according to... or in what context" This question just becomes a quagmire. The OP cites Bob Orton jr., but I have a real problem considering a guy that was always at or near the top of the top of the card during his career, and is highly thought-of as one of the best of his generation wherever he went as "underrated".

As for some of the others:

Barry Windham - generally thought of as one of the best workers of his generation.
Hulk Hogan - interesting choice, he's gone from being considered a waste of space to being pimped so hard by some that he's almost become "overrated"!
Sid Vicious/Justice - We've come quite away from "Softball Sid Sucks" to the consensus that he was "okay". I'd be interested in any argument put forward that would consider him much better than "passable".
Dick Hutton - Trave suggests him and since all we have is a pretty darn short career tacked on to a very memorable amatuer run, hard to say that he's "underrated" (at least by the folks around here). Yeah, he probably wouldn't get too much traction from a SDL crowd, but there ya go...

Finally, Richard comments on Blassie and suggests Roman & Cena... As to the former, (as I always do with wrestlers from the 1940s-1960s) I turn it over to memories of my rather large extended-family of the previous generation, who were NOT wrestling fans... However, being an annoying brat, that was a subject that I wanted to talk about and I was usually relentless with the line of questions that started with Uncle____, who was your favorite wrestler when you were my age? Bottom line, any wrestler that was recalled by these generally baseball/football only fans, (such as any of my great-uncles) had to be a pretty big deal. Blassie was certainly know in this context.
As for Cena & Roman, I think that among people who know their stuff, that the perception of these two guys has flip-flopped so much that they are in danger of being overrated..

As for Randy Orton, that's an odd one... When motivated, he can be a joy to watch, however, those occasions are becoming fewer and fewer.

Based on conversation from another board that I frequent, I'll nominate "The Miz"! Yes, he's coming off of perhaps his best year ever, and he's cut some delightfully "shooty" promos on Daniel Bryan, but that's been about it. When the time comes to deliver in the ring, the "King of Safe Style" is pretty darn pedestrian, yet to have heard some of these guys, the Miz was cutting Cornette-level promos while delivering Eddie Guerrero-level matches week in, week out, yeah, that's overrated...

fantastic post. I really concur on the thoughts about Cena and Hogan coming full circle to overrated at this point as "smarks" have gone to trying to show how much they "get it" now when it comes to drawing power and making money.
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Crimson Mask from FL
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I guess casual fans don't know from Billy Robinson, but you still hear his name a LOT in grappling circles.

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If you lames are the master race, my money's on the mud people.---Andrew Vachss

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Crimson Mask from FL
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As far as Hutton, who knows? There's no film. There's like Yohe and 17 other living people who ever saw him.

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If you lames are the master race, my money's on the mud people.---Andrew Vachss

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Crimson Mask from FL
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... and for that matter if we're talking general public or casual fans, ****, it's everybody from before 1995 or whatever. They don't know Thesz or Londos from Zippy the Pinhead. No reason they would.

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If you lames are the master race, my money's on the mud people.---Andrew Vachss

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First Row Al
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Freddie Blassie was never underated here in Los Angeles. He was probably in the top 5 of all-time wrestlers in SoCal.

Buddy Killer Austin, although highly rated in L.A. for several years back in the 60's, he might not have been on everyone's radar around the rest of the country.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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I think he was, but has been largely forgotten. Probably again through lack of film. But he was on top in NY, Florida and other places too.

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If you lames are the master race, my money's on the mud people.---Andrew Vachss

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Hollywood Hoagie
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Jim Duggan

Seriously, he's well known being one of the key players in the WWF during the 80s boom. He didn't always show how good he could be. I just watched a WCW match of his against Vader and he was great. He's powerful, athletic, tough and believable. He made Vader look like a wimp.

[ 04-16-2017, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Hollywood Hoagie ]

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MrWrestlingIIForever
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Ronnie Garvin. Could tie you up, scientifically wrestle or brawl, and seemed like a legit tough guy. One bad booking decision in Crockettland in 1987, and he's considered a punchline.
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WahooFan
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quote:
Originally posted by MrWrestlingIIForever:
Ronnie Garvin. Could tie you up, scientifically wrestle or brawl, and seemed like a legit tough guy. One bad booking decision in Crockettland in 1987, and he's considered a punchline.

But he shouldn't have interrupted Wahoo. [Wink]

I've got to nominate Terry Gordy. In his prime he could do it all. He should have been a single wrestler for a few years. I really think it would have helped his career.

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Gov't Mule
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quote:
Originally posted by Shaving Weezie Jefferson:
Alex Chilton.

Naw man, Alex got all the credit. Gotta go with Jody Stephens!


*I may or may not have had to Google the other band members. You can't prove anything...

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Ken Viewer
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
As far as Hutton, who knows? There's no film. There's like Yohe and 17 other living people who ever saw him.

There IS film of him wrestling. Mentioned this at various times over the years.

Diamondmd confirmed he's seen one recorded match and that's not all that's out there.

Can't help anyone get it because I really am retired from chasing after rasslin' footage but there certainly are others out in wrestling-history-land who can, and it would be a major hassle, I'll acknowledge.

AFAIK there isn't much of it, and it's difficult to judge a wrestler based on one or two clips, but, again, there is surviving film of Hutton.

Do you recall a few years back when a print of W.W. Wittig's original film of George Hackenschmidt defeating Joe Rogers turned up in New Zealand?

The finders didn't have the funds to pay to convert 2,300 feet of silver nitrate film(it can catch fire if ya sneeze in the same room with it) to digital format. So they tried to get a British film archive to attempt a conversion to digital format.

Since then, I haven't read anything about any progress in digging up funding to pay the costs.

All manner of wrestling films still exist. But I stayed away from the Hackenschmidt footage because what they needed was a benefactor to cover the costs and I wasn't that person.

Ken

[ 04-17-2017, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Ken Viewer ]

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Crimson Mask from FL
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I was engaging in hyperbole.

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If you lames are the master race, my money's on the mud people.---Andrew Vachss

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ponyplayer19
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Dutch Savage
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quote:
Originally posted by Hollywood Hoagie:
Jim Duggan

Seriously, he's well known being one of the key players in the WWF during the 80s boom. He didn't always show how good he could be. I just watched a WCW match of his against Vader and he was great. He's powerful, athletic, tough and believable. He made Vader look like a wimp.

If you're talking about their Starrcade 94 match, Duggan was supposed to put Vader over in preparation for his feud with Hogan and made him look terrible instead.
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Skullbutt
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I never cared for him while he was wrestling, but I feel that Rocca is underated by many
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Dr Hackenslash
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Vince McMahon. In a different world, he'd have taken the Hogan role himself and run with it.
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