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Author Topic: What are some of favorite unsolved crimes and mysteries?
Madison Carter from TX
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quote:
Originally posted by Tabe:


Another favorite unsolved mystery - Easter Island.

Tabe

May want to hit Wiki up on that one, it's not really much of a mystery these days.

On a related note, the time was probably *most* disappointed by a solved favorite mystery was the Roanoke disappearance.

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Seven
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Casolaro
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Grobbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Tabe:
quote:
Originally posted by Grobbit:
Oklahoma City bombing is a bit mysterious, but I don't know enough about it.

JFK, well, I think Oswald did it and there is no mystery around Deeley Plaza, the mystery lies in who was behind it all, certainly I don't think Oswald acted without being prompted. Personally, I think the way Kennedy wanted to bring the Federal Reserve back into govt control and curb the rise of the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned about in his leaving office speech are good starting points for speculation

All it takes is one visit to Dealey Plaza to know that the official story doesn't add up.

Tabe

What doesn't add up? I haven't seen anything to make me believe anyone other than Oswald fired.

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"If I hit him with the left hand and he's still standing, I will walk around him to see whats holding him up." - Harley Race

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Arnold_OldSchool
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http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/assassinations/jfk-theories-crazy-evidence-second-gunman-grassy-knoll/photos.html?curPhoto=sam-giancana

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http://www.maebrussell.com/Disappearing%20Witnesses/Disappearing%20Witnesses.html

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Arnold_OldSchool
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quote:
RE: Serial Killer John Wayne Gacy

Before Robert disappeared though, a weird event would occur that would later turn out to be a chilling prediction of events to come -- or rather a stunning revelation of events that had already occurred. At a pre-Christmas party that was held on December 2, 1978, a well-known local psychic known as Florece (Florence Branson) had been hired to provide cards readings for the guests. The party was held at the home of a contractor associate of Gacy’s and Gacy was one of the many in attendance.


The evening was almost over when it came time for Gacy to have his fortune told. Up until this point, the party and the readings had been going well and everyone was having a great time, including the psychic, and then Gacy approached her for his reading. As soon as he spoke to her, Florece later reported that she sensed something was very wrong with the man. She also said that she became physically ill when she laid out his cards. She was unable to discern any details but knew there was an evil hiding below the surface of this man. She bluffed her way through the reading, much too frightened to say anything to Gacy.


At the end of the evening, she felt compelled to speak to the hostess about her horrific impressions of Gacy. She told what she had sensed and added that she was afraid of him and that Gacy was "perverted and violent."


The hostess refused to hear such things as "John" had been a family friend for several years. Florece didn’t argue with her but was not surprised several weeks later when the story of Gacy and his murderous crime spree made the papers.

-----
In the midst of the investigation, one of these same friends was asked by Gacy to stop by his house and to check on his dog, making sure that the animal had enough food and water. Gacy said that he didn’t want to go there because the police were harassing him and trying to pin the crime on him. The friend agreed, borrowed a house key from Gacy and went over to 8213 West Summerdale. Nervous about being seen going to Gacy’s house, even though at this point, he was sure that his friend had nothing to do with any criminal activities, he decided to go around to the back door instead.


He put the key into the door lock and just as he began to turn it, he heard what sounded like a group of people moaning and crying inside of the house. The groans were so chilling that he immediately closed the door, re-locked it and left. He hurried away from the house and when he returned to the site where Gacy was working, he lied to him and told him that everything in the house was fine, including his dog.


There is no way to know if the sounds the man heard in the house were natural or supernatural. It’s possible that one of Gacy’s victims was still alive and that his eerie cries sounded like a chorus of moans to the already unnerved friend, but this seems unlikely as by this time, Gacy had begun disposing of the bodies of his victims in locations outside of his home. It seems more likely that, if this account is true, that the friend may have actually heard the voices of victims whose deaths were yet to be avenged. Could the spirits of some of Gacy’s victims have lingered behind in the house -- or at least could some sort of supernatural energy have been pressed on the atmosphere of a place where such horrid things had occurred?

First time I read this I got some serious goosebumps.

[ 03-10-2013, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: Arnold_OldSchool ]

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Arnold_OldSchool
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quote:
The Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders is a still-unsolved crime in rural Mayes County, Oklahoma. On a rainy, late-spring night in 1977, three girls—ages 8, 9, and 10—were raped and murdered and their bodies left in the woods near their tent at summer camp. Although Gene Leroy Hart, a local jail escapee with a history of violence stood trial for the crime, he was acquitted. Thirty years later authorities conducted new DNA testing, but the results of these proved inconclusive, as the samples were too old.

In 1977, Camp Scott was in its 49th year as a keystone of the Tulsa-based Magic Empire Girl Scout Council. Situated along the confluence of Snake Creek and Spring Creek near State Highway 82, the 410-acre (1.7 km2) compound was located between Locust Grove and Tahlequah.

Gene Leroy Hart had been at large since escaping four years earlier from the Mayes County Jail. He had been convicted of raping two pregnant women. Hart was born about a mile from Camp Scott.

Less than two months before the murders, during an on-site training session, a camp counselor found her belongings ransacked, her doughnuts stolen, and inside the empty doughnut box was a disturbing hand-written note. The author vowed to murder three campers. Because summer camps are rife with ghost stories, the note was treated as a prank and discarded.

June 12, 1977 was the first day of camp. Around 6pm a thunderstorm hit, and the girls huddled in their tents. Among them were Tulsans Lori Lee Farmer, 8, and Doris Denise Milner, 10, along with Michele Guse, 9, of Broken Arrow, a suburb of Tulsa. The trio were sharing tent #8 in the camp's "Kiowa" unit, named for a Native American tribe.

The following morning, a counselor made the discovery of a girl's body in the forest. Soon, it was discovered that all three girls in tent #8 had been killed. Subsequent testing showed that they had been raped, bludgeoned, and strangled.

Camp Scott was evacuated and would never reopen.

Gene Leroy Hart, a Cherokee, was arrested within a year at the home of a Cherokee medicine man and tried in March, 1979. Although the local sheriff pronounced himself "one thousand percent" certain the man on trial committed the crimes, a local jury acquitted Hart.

Two of the families later sued the Magic Empire Council and its insurer in a $5 million alleged negligence action. The civil trial included discussion of the threatening note as well as the fact that tent #8 lay 86-yard (79 m) from the counselors' tent. The defense suggested that the future of summer camping in general hung in the balance. In 1985, by a 9–3 vote, jurors sided with the camp.

By this time, Hart was already dead. As a convicted rapist and jail escapee, he still had 305 of his 308 years left to serve in the Oklahoma State Penitentiary. In June 1979, during a jog inside the jail, he collapsed and died of an apparent heart attack.

Richard Guse, the father of one of the victims, went on to help the state legislature pass the Oklahoma Victim's Bill of Rights. Guse also helped found and then chaired the Oklahoma Crime Victims' Compensation Board, which would later gain prominence for its "Murrah Fund" in the wake of the Oklahoma City Bombing.

Another parent, Sheri Farmer, went on to found the Oklahoma chapter of support group Parents of Murdered Children


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1000 Masks But No Jobs
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One topic I have always been fascinated by is the Columbine school massacre from 1999. I have picked up a couple of excellent Columbine books off Amazon in recent months, and the topic still remains very interesting to me.

There are just so many facets of the case that will probably never be known. Who else knew what was going to happen on that day (there are lots and lots of rumors and accusations regarding this)? Why do dozens and dozens of students say there were more than two shooters and specifically name others as being shooters? Did the friends/associates Klebold and Harris were seen talking with just moments before the shooting ultimately get cold feet or blend in with the student population that was fleeing the building in the early minutes of the attack?

Was it really just some amazing coincidence that the "Phrase of the Day" over the school intercom the day of the shooting was "Today is a day you do not [will not] want to be here?" Why did Harris and Klebold stop shooting and allow so many people to escape from the library by simply leaving the room to head back down to the cafeteria?

How much did local law enforcement cover up (apparently, a lot), and why did they wait so long to storm the school with gunmen in the school? Why do so many students/teachers report hearing gunshots/pipe bombs long after Harris and Klebold were said to have committed suicide according to the timeline in the official report of the masscare?

[ 03-10-2013, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: 1000 Masks But No Jobs ]

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JJ Bklyn42
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnold_OldSchool:
http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/assassinations/jfk-theories-crazy-evidence-second-gunman-grassy-knoll/photos.html?curPhoto=sam-giancana

Hard to believe they left Joe DiMaggio out of this otherwise "comprehensive" list of suspects! [alien]

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"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives" - Jack Roosevelt Robinson

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." - Maya Angelou

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Arnold_OldSchool
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A long complex unsolved robber/rapist/murderer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visalia_ransacker

^
The ransacker is believed to have become:

quote:
On June 18, 1976, the East Area Rapist's first attack occurred at 4:00am on Paseo Drive in Rancho Cordova, CA. Within 6 months, 7 additional attacks were committed by the same man. As rumors of the rapes spread through the affected communities, the Sacramento Sheriff's Department asked the news media not to report on the rapes and give them time to catch the rapist. 28 years later, the EAR and now the Original Night Stalker remains unidentified.

By November of 1976, the East Area Rapist struck twice in one day in neighborhoods near each other but on opposite sides of the American River. One rape occurred in the affluent section of Del Dayo reportedly near the home of a newspaper editor. The Sacramento Sheriff's Department held neighborhood meetings in part to inform worried citizens of the threat and in part to dispel rumors that were running rampant and contributing to the climate of fear.


By April of 1977, over 15 attacks by the ski masked rapist occurred and the Sacramento Sheriff's Department was no closer to catching him. The news reports always made mention of the rapists m.o. of attacking women while they were alone. That all changed on April 2, 1977. The East Area Rapist attacked his first couple.

On May 17, 1977, the EAR pushed Sacramento County into a state of panic, bordering on hysteria. After raping his 23rd victim, the EAR threatened to kill his next two victims. The EAR now verbalized a propensity for violence that law enforcement always suspected was there. The Sacramento Sheriff's Department in response to overwhelming pressure from the public, held a news conference and released a composite sketch of the East Area Rapist and a criminal psychological profile.

After the 5/17/77 threat to kill his next two victims, Sacramento County was in a state of near hysteria. Citizens were demanding that something be done. Sheriff patrols were stepped up as well as undercover stakeouts. Citizen's Band radio operators organized by a local dentist began their own patrols. They were known as East Area Rapist Surveillance (EARS) Patrols. The local dentist added $10,000 of his own money to the $15,000 reward offered by the Sacramento Bee's Secret Witness program.

The increased Sheriff patrols and the CBer EARS patrols had an affect. On 5/28/77, the East Area Rapist struck again for the 24th time. This time he attacked a couple for the first time in the South Area of Sacramento. It was as if he was making a point: you can't stop me. And if that point was not clear enough, his victim lived several blocks from the office of the dentist who put up the additional $10,000 and organized the EARS patrol.


The summer of 1977 came and went without any reported EAR attacks. The intense search for the rapist yielded no viable suspects. On September 6, 1977, the EAR resurfaced, this time further South, attacking a couple in Stockton, CA. The EAR was now Stockton's problem and Stockton citizens reacted much the same way as Sacramento citizens did: gun and locks sales were way up.

The intensity of the Sheriff and EARS patrol had dissipated, in part because it was financially unfeasible and in part because the EAR had moved to Stockton. On October 2, 1977, the EAR returned to the area of his namesake, attacking a couple in the College Greens/Glenbrook area.

By January 28, 1978, the East Area Rapist had attacked 29 victims. The Sacramento County Sheriff's Department still had no viable leads in the case and no viable suspects. It seemed as if they were powerless to stop this brazen criminal. And because of the phony composite sketch, everyone in Sacramento County was looking for the wrong man.

On February 2, 1978, Brian and Katie Maggiore were walking their dog on a quiet evening in Rancho Cordova. They were confronted by at least one person armed with a gun. Brian Maggiore was chased into a nearby backyard and was shot in the chest. Katie Maggiore was shot in the head on the street. There was no apparent motive for this senseless double-homicide and it initially seemed unrelated to the EAR attacks. Until now, the EAR had never killed any of his victims, although he threatened many times to do so.


On April 14, 1978, the EAR struck again in the South Area of Sacramento County, attacking a 15 year old babysitter. No one knew it at the time, but it would be the last reported attack by the EAR in Sacramento County. And it would be no coincidence. The EAR was very methodical and calculating. He always wore a mask, so none of his victims had ever seen his face. He always wore gloves so he never left any fingerprints behind. His vehicle was never parked near the crime scenes, so his license plate was never knowingly written down. So why did he leave Sacramento?


By April 16, 1978, the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department had no leads in the murder of the Maggiores. A composite sketch of two men seen moments before the shooting and running from the crime scene after the shooting had been released on February 16th. A witness provided additional detail on one of the suspects and a new, enhanced composite sketch was published on 4/16/78 by the news media. There was now speculation about a connection to the EAR because of shoelaces found at the crime scene. The murders occurred down the street from the first EAR attack. Was the EAR finally unmasked?

On June 5, 1978, the East Area Rapist inexplicably turns up in Stanislaus County, attacking a couple in Northeast Modesto, CA. There were no EAR attacks reported there before. This was the beginning a new, erratic chapter in the EAR saga. The EAR switched between Modesto and Davis, CA in Yolo County, committing five attacks between 6/5/78 and 7/7/78.

October 10, 1978 marked another abrupt change in the EAR's criminal behavior. EAR now moved into Contra Costa County to attack a couple in Concord, CA. He continued a series of attacks in Contra Costa, claiming six more victims in Concord, Danville, San Ramon and Walnut Creek. He also committed one attack in Fremont, CA in Alameda County.


The EAR attacks came to an abrupt end with the last reported attack occurring on June 26, 1979. However, there are at least six EAR attacks that have been unaccounted for. The last reported EAR attack was listed in the media as his 44th attack. However, some law enforcement officials have referred to 50 attacks by the EAR. There has been no official explanation for this discrepancy.

The next time that the East Area Rapist would surface, he would be in Southern California. Some detectives suspected it early on but no one really knew for certain at the time. He would no longer be only a serial rapist. He would prove to be something far more terrifying and far more deadly. Something that law enforcement officials familiar with the EAR knew was there all along.

On Oct. 1, 1979, a man in a ski mask entered the home of *Mary Brown and *John Davis. The couple were awakened, a flashlight shining in their eyes, and Brown was ordered to tie up Davis with pre-cut lengths of cord that were brought to the house. While the masked intruder ransacked the house supposedly looking for money, Brown managed to hop outside to the front of her home and scream for help. The intruder pulled her back into the house. During this time, Davis made his escape into the backyard. While the intruder pursued Davis, Brown escaped again, this time running into the arms of a neighbor who had been alerted by her screams. Having lost control of the situation, the intruder was spotted escaping on a bicycle and he disappeared down a creek bed.

*Not their real names

Two months later, on December 30, 1979, another couple was attacked a few blocks from Brown/Davis. Robert Offerman and Alexandria Manning were found shot to death. Both of them were bound. Manning was reportedly raped. Examination of the crime scene led investigators to believe that Offerman had managed to loosen his bindings and lunge at the intruder before he was shot and killed. Neighbors who heard the gunshots thought that they were firecrackers.

On March 13, 1980, Lyman and Charlene Smith were found bludgeoned to death in their home in Ventura County. A log from the fireplace was used to kill the Smith's. Their wrists and ankles were bound with drapery cord and an ornate "chinese knot"was used on their wrists. Subsequent examination by the coroner revealed that Charlene had been raped. Though there were similarities to the attacks in Goleta, The Smith's murder was not immediately linked to the others. Ventura Detectives suspected Joe Alsip, a former business partner of Lyman Smith, who was later exonerated.

On August 19, 1980, Keith and Patrice Harrington were found bludgeoned to death in their home in Dana Point, CA. Like Charlene Smith, Patrice Harrington was raped. Though there was evidence that the Harringtons were bound at the wrist and ankles, the killer removed the ligatures and the murder weapon from the scene of the crime.

On February 5, 1981, Manuela Witthuhn was raped and bludgeoned to death in her home in Irvine, CA. Like the Harringtons, the ligatures and murder weapon were removed from the crime scene. Unlike the Harringtons, Witthuhn, though married, was home alone at the time of the attack. A lamp and crystal curio were taken from her home presumably by the killer.

On July 27, 1981, Cheri Domingo and Gregory Sanchez were found murdered in Cheri Domingo's home. This attacked occurred a half-mile from the murder of Robert Offerman and Alexandria Manning. Sanchez was shot once in the face and then bludgeoned to death. Cheri Domingo was bludgeoned. Again, ligatures used to bind them and the murder weapon were removed from the home. The attackers familiarity with the area lead police to believe he lived near the San Jose Creek.

On May 4, 1986, Janelle Lisa Cruz was found bludgeoned to death in her home. Her family was away on vacation in Mexico. Cruz' boyfriend reported hearing noises outside her bedroom window shortly before he left for the evening. Cruz dismissed them as coming from the washing machine. A pipe wrench was reported missing by Cruz stepfather and was most likely the murder weapon


The last known contact made by the EAR/ONS was a phone call that he made to one of his victims either in 1990 or 1991. A DNA match linking the so-called "Original Night Stalker" murders with the "East Area Rapist" attacks was made in 2001, making his the most "prolific serial offender" in California history. The identity of this man remains a mystery.

Many eyewitness versions of his appearance:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/6205612/img/Picture-Box/COMPilation.jpg


Case notes from EAR lead detective Larry Crompton's book "Sudden Terror" :
quote:

A woman see a masked man walking/prowling while she is stopped at a intersection at like 2 am. She looks one way to check for traffic, when she turns back EAR is TAPPING ON HER CAR WINDOW WITH A KNIFE! She roared off and EAR gave chase briefly w/ a bike.

Another story had a EAR patrol stop a car right after a rape occured - the man had lube on his front seat and weapons in his trunk. They questioned him at length and never cleared him as a suspect.

EAR attacked a woman w/ a teen daughter - after tying her up he acted erratic as a group of teens were messing around outside on the street and the woman had back scar that EAR did not see while spying on her, after he raised her shirt he stared at her back for 3-4 mins, while pulling her waist band, finally after the mins passed, he snapped the elastic and never raped her. (The teens might be a different attack, it was either the teens outside or her daughter's alarm that bugged him combined)

Another attack had a babysitter get attacked, but the house phone rang (EAR had not cut the lines as he often did) after 2 sets of 10+ rings, he let the girl say "Hello" and hung up the phone - the phone rang AGAIN and he got flustered and took her outside, where minutes later her parents pulled into the yard and scared him off - he ran to a river and was seen running by a fisher woman.

Another sighting had EAR climbing out of a dumpster at 6:30 am outside a business woman's work.

The EAR did a lot of scouting - may have posed as a realator and a different charity, and wore costumes. A very frustrating book to read as every 3 or 4 pages another attack occurs and the cops relate how all these neighbors heard, saw and experienced wierd things in the weeks leading to the attacks and mostly reporting nothing to police. One couple heard him break into their neighbor's house, but since they knew the neighbor was vacationing in Europe, they did not call the police - IIRC the EAR attacked the family when they returned home.

EAR was actually caught at least once (I'm nearing the end of the book) he broke into a house and was ransacking it, and he got to the bedroom and the man awoke and watched him put his mask on while clutching shoe laces (his favorite binding tool... The man jumped out of bed and corned EAR screaming at him as his girlfriend ran downstairs (as they had practiced in event of an EAR attack) and called for help, instead of keeping EAR cornered the man ran off too and despite the woman and neighbors being outside no one saw EAR leave, but when the cops checked minutes later EAR was gone.

EAR didn't outright rape all of his victims, forwhatever reason he seemed to just kind of plunge his male protuberance into the girl and pull out almost right away sometimes.

One of the EAR's victim's ended up ENJOYING the rape as she was into kinky sex and she sounded more turned on than emotionally fractured by her attack when cops interviewed her.

One really strange suspect they cleared had a childhood of forced incest, and parents who wore ski caps and flashlights to scare there kids, and even bound the children for sexual purposes, so fitting the EAR's MO to a tee almost, but I believe blood cleared him.

In most cases the EAR seemed uninterested in playing with the women's breasts, he would rape them and some got anal rape and licked the woman's privates, many were also forced to giving oral sex to EAR...Almost, if not all of the victim's were also forced to stroke his penis w/ bound hands behind their backs, one woman started stroking him before ordered and EAR seemed excited an actually played w/ her breasts after this.

There is a theory that the Goleta Murders are not EAR's doing, since in 2 of the murder's a big German shepard was involved at the crime scene, brought by the Perp. Also in at least 2 of the murder's the Perp lost control of the male and had a struggle before the murder. And in the 1st murder the MALE was anally raped and then castrated. All are not a part of EAR's MO...Some suspect that these were another perp attempted to emulate EAR in order to cover the crimes, and there is some evidence to suggest a mob involvement...this was not in the book, but from another website dealing with the EAR... I believe DNA links EAR to these murders...

The murder's were not reported to Larry Crompton and the EAR Task force as the local police did not want word getting out, since President Reagan owned a house in the area.

There was one final unconfirmed EAR attack in 1987 - the woman was attacked in bed by a perp with a log who fractured her skull but she lived...Nothing but the murder method and location links this to EAR.

In the 90's, the Sacramento Police threw away a lot of EAR notes and evidence - per their commanding officier's wishes. Larry Crompton personally saved a lot of it from the junk heap, including the only known (possible) hand print of EAR. When the Sacremento D.A. found out Det. Crompton took the files a few years later, he ordered them returned - Crompton did not comply, as everything but one sheet was a mere copy of the original.

The handprint is a photo copy and is nearly useless now in matching due to years of age and lack of ability to get a good copy made from it.

Det. Larry Pool who took charge of the EAR cold case in 98ish (and can be seen in E!'s EAR special, is actually the same cop who started the imfamous OJ white Bronco chase apparently after spotting OJ going to Nicole's grave site.




[ 03-10-2013, 05:11 AM: Message edited by: Arnold_OldSchool ]

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Arnold_OldSchool
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quote:
On August 23, 1987, Saline County, Arkansas was rocked by the mysterious deaths of two teenagers who were run over by a Union Pacific Train in Alexander. The two teenagers were identified as Kevin Ives and Don Henry. Kevin and Don were to start their senior year at Bryant High School the following Monday. When the boy’s pictures were aired on the news, I recognized Kevin as a boy I had met at a friend’s house. “How could such a terrible thing happen?” I asked myself. Little did I know I was in for the shock of my life!


Kevin and Don had left Don’s home around midnight after a night of cruising on Geyer Springs Road in Little Rock to go out spotlighting near the tracks. The following morning Don’s father, Curtis, became concerned because Kevin and Don had not come back home. He went out to look for them but they were nowhere to be found.


The police arrived at the Henry home and Curtis called and told Linda, Kevin’s mom, she needed to come over. Two boys had been run over by a passing Union Pacific Train and the police needed a description of their boys. Sadly, the descriptions fit the descriptions of the two boys that had been found. The Ives and Henry families were shocked and in disbelief. “What in the world has happened to our boys?” they asked.


An investigation in to their deaths revealed the boys had apparently smoked a substantial amount of marijuana, possibly laid down on the tracks in a stupor and were ran over by the train. Their deaths were ruled “accidental” by the State Medical Examiner Fahmy Malak. The Saline County Sheriff told the Ives and Henry families to accept that their children had died in a terrible accident or that their children may have possibly committed suicide. However, Kevin’s parents, Larry and Linda Ives, and Don’s parents, Curtis and Marvelle Henry, would not accept that this was a terrible accident or that their children had committed suicide. It was then that Linda Ives began a crusade to find out what really happened to her son and his friend. The families also pushed the sheriff’s office to investigate their children’s deaths further.


A more extensive investigation into the deaths of Kevin and Don revealed that the boys had been murdered and placed on the tracks to be run over by a train as a cover up. I assume the killer or killers figured no one would figure out that the boys had been killed prior to the train running over them. However their secret was found out. Another pathologist, Joe Burton, examined Kevin and Don and found that Kevin had been beaten in the face, by the butt of a gun most likely, and that Don had been stabbed prior to the train running over them. The boys were already dead and the train was not what killed them.


The Ives and Henry families were forced now to accept that their sons had been murdered and that they had not committed suicide or been the victims of a terrible accident. The citizens of Saline County were rocked because the county now had a double homicide of two children on their hands. I was so saddened, hurt and shocked that someone I knew had been murdered.


The investigation deepened further when it was revealed that officers in our local law enforcement may have been involved in the boy’s deaths. It was also revealed that the boys had possibly stumbled upon a “drug drop” and they were killed because of what they saw. As the Ives and Henry families continued to search for answers, a world of underground activities of drugs, money, crooked politicians and crooked law enforcement emerged. That “drug drop” accusation was linked to a notorious drug lord named Barry Seals, who had brought his drug smuggling ring from Louisiana and set it up in Mena, Arkansas. Barry Seals used The Mena Airport to run his drug smuggling operation. It was also then, that I was forced to come to terms with the fact that a long time family friend, Danny Harmon, may have also been involved with this sick story. It was very hard for me and my mother to swallow that our friend, who we loved and adored, may have turned into a crook and possibly may be the leader of the attempted cover-up of this sad story. We juggled back and forth with hurt and disbelief. We asked each other, “Danny is such a good man, how could he possibly be involved in something as horrible as this?”


As if this wasn’t enough to deal with, another tragedy struck. In May of 1988 my ex-boyfriend, Keith Coney, was killed in a motorcycle wreck. He was apparently running from an attacker, with his throat slit, when he ran his motorcycle into the back of a semi trailer rig. His death was ruled as a “traffic accident” and no autopsy was performed. Nothing was thought much of Keith Coney’s death until it was revealed that Keith was on a list of witnesses to testify in front of a grand jury that had formed to look into the deaths of Kevin and Don. As it turned out, Keith had told his mom, Betty, that he knew things about Kevin and Don’s murder. He would not tell her what he knew; just that he did know things and that he was being followed. However, Keith did not know who was following him. He told his mom he was afraid for his life and obviously he had good reason to be. Keith was also good friends with Kevin and Don and it was believed that he may have been in the woods with Kevin and Don that night.


I was very distraught over Keith’s death. This whole mess was starting to become very personal to me. Someone I had known casually had been murdered and now someone who I had loved dearly had been murdered. “What the hell is happening to my friends, and why, God, is this happening?” I screamed aloud. I struggled to make sense of it. I got in touch with Betty, Keith’s mom, and we spoke intensely about it all. Betty was also very distraught over her son’s death and found comfort in talking to someone she trusted about it and someone who cared about her and her son. No one really seemed to care much about Keith’s death. A local police officer, Kathy Carty, was even quoted as saying, “Keith is what we in law enforcement call a dirtball. The world is a better place without him and I am not sorry that he is dead!” How cruel could someone be? Just because Keith had some run-ins with the law and Kathy didn’t like him much, it was a really nasty thing to say about someone’s murdered child! Keith did not deserve to be murdered at the hands of someone else and Kathy’s comments on his death were just plain wrong and unprofessional! However, the madness was just beginning. There was more tragedy and sadness to come to my friends.


Following the deaths of Kevin, Don and Keith, a string of murders in Saline County began. Keith Makaskle, an informant in the case, was found dead in his garage. He had been stabbed 113 times. Greg Collins, a friend of Keith Coney’s, was found shot to death soon after Keith Makaskle. Not long after that, Boonie Bearden, another friend of Keith Coney’s, turned up missing and was presumed dead. Things in Saline County were getting absolutely crazy. Three friends, all who were to be witnesses for the grand jury were now dead, an informant in the case was now dead and no one had any answers. People around town were asking each other, “What in God’s name is going on in Saline County? People are dropping off like flies around here and no one has any answers, except that they are all friends and their deaths may be connected to the deaths of these two boys on the railroad tracks.” However, the killing spree in our town was still not over.


This story darkened even further in April of 1989 when Jeff Rhoades, A friend of mine in high school, was reported missing and then found dead. Jeff’s body was found burned in a local landfill after being shot twice in the head. An investigation into Jeff’s death found that Jeff had told his father he had information about Keith Makaskle’s murder. He was in fear of his life and he wanted to get out of town. Jeff asked his dad if he could come to Houston and stay with him. However, he didn’t get that chance. A man named Frank Pilcher was arrested and convicted for killing Jeff after his girlfriend told police what he had done. Marissa, Frank’s girlfriend, also told police that Jeff was working for a man named Ron Ketleson selling cocaine. Ron Ketleson was the father of Jordan and Aaron Ketleson, two other friends of mine.


Jordan Ketleson was also the next friend of mine to turn up dead. He was found shot to death in his truck and his death was ruled a suicide. Jordan was believed to be involved in Keith Makaskle’s murder. Information was also turned up that Ron, Jordan’s dad, had orchestrated the murder of Jeff Rhoades. By now, this demented and sad story had become really personal to me. My friends were being murdered left and right and a family friend may have possibly covered up their murders. Feelings of hurt, disbelief, fear, emptiness, and anger filled my days. This was not a murder mystery movie I was watching at our local movie theater nor was it a crazy Steven King novel I was reading. It was real! Charles Manson had not escaped from prison and went on another killing spree. We had our own serial killer on the loose right here at home! A world of drug lords, dirty money, crooked politicians, corrupt police officers and the murdering of witnesses to crooked dealings had become real. I thought this kind of thing only existed in books and movies. I was a young, gullible, sheltered and naïve girl and I was forced to see the evilness that exists out there in the world. I wondered how such dirty, selfish, sick and demented evilness could overtake the lives of the simple everyday people I knew. Not only had I lost friends and the parents of these kids lost their children, we were all slapped with the harsh reality that we could not trust our local law enforcement, our local politicians or our local government. The people who were supposed to protect us were hurting us. Imagine the hurt and anger we all felt. Imagine the hell these families and I were going through. It was our worst nightmare come true and nothing was being done about it!


To this day, all of these murders are still unsolved, except for Jeff’s murder. I have dealt with a lot of pain and anger through all of this, as have the families of these children over the years. My life has changed because of these tragic events. My eyes are now open and I am not as naïve as I once was. I look at the world through a different pair of eyes now seeing it as a cruel place to exist in. These tragedies and the circumstances surrounding them have taught me to not be so trusting of people, to be on guard at all times and that evilness and selfishness can take over the life of a good honest person. I don’t understand it all and I don’t understand why, but it is a harsh reality to me now. I do know that God knew we weren’t perfect and that is why he died on the cross; to save us from our sins. I only hope the people responsible for killing my friends will understand the sins they have committed and ask God for forgiveness for what they have done. As for the families of these murdered children, I hope that justice will be served one day in the eyes of the law also.



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Arnold_OldSchool
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quote:
In 1947 Gemma Di Giorgi, who was born without pupils, lived in Ribera in Sicily. There was no medical hope of her ever seeing. While her parents accepted this diagnosis, her grandmother did not. She made the long journey to San Giovanni Rotondo with the little girl, full of faith in the powers of Padre Pio. They were among the crowd of the faithful attending his Mass when at the end while the silence was at its peak everyone heard a voice calling: "Gemma, come here!" The Grandmother pushed her way up to the altar with the child and knelt down before the Saint whom they had come so far to see. He smiled at Gemma and told her that she must make her first Communion. He heard her Confession and then stroked her eyes with his hand. She received Holy Communion by herself and when afterwards her grandmother asked her if she had asked for any favor from Padre Pio the little girl answered: "No, Little Grandmother, I forgot!" Padre Pio saw them later and said: "May the Madonna bless you Gemma. Be a good girl!" At this moment the child gave a frantic cry, she could see a permanent cure although her eyes still had no pupils!
Another similar case (as seen on Oprah!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsP_ax8omp0

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REO Speeddealer
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The Oklahoma City bombing is not an unsolved crime.
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snortrumble
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
Black Dahlia, for several reasons, but I think Dr. Hodel did it.

So long from the Sunshine State!

After reading his son's book, I'm pretty much convinced too.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XtfVJVxkB0

The Classic "Cumbrian Spaceman" story of the 60's

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quote:
On June 1, 1968 an avid American fossil collector by the name of William J. Meister made a startling discovery. In Antelope Springs, a fossil loaded excavation site, he found fossilized footprints on an old rock. What makes this discovery startling though could only be seen on closer inspection, where trilobites (one on each shoeprint) were discovered embedded into the fossil. Trilobites first appeared about 540 million years ago and died out around 240 million years ago. Who could have walked the lands in shoes or sandals more than 240 million years ago?
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quote:
Originally posted by REO Speeddealer:
The Oklahoma City bombing is not an unsolved crime.

There's certainly a lot of questions surrounding it. Watch the Terrance Yeakley video above for a sampling. (For one there was a 3rd man w/ McVeigh and his buddy when they went to the Ryder rental place - the FBI refused to believe the owner's story and went w/ the 2 person theory etc etc)

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKkAMOWkrHM&playnext_from=TL&videos=P7N3Yw6MmVs

4:45 - an Italian woman who claims to have been impregnated during an alien abduction has a "hybrid" being pulled from her womb during a video taped surgery.

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quote:
Details of Disappearance

Sagers was last seen at approximately 7:00 a.m. on October 4, 1988 in her hometown of Mount Holly, South Carolina. She was standing with her dog at the bus stop in front of the Mount Holly Plantation at the time. When the bus arrived twenty minutes later, Sagers was gone. She has never been seen again.

Sagers vanished from the same location as her mother, Korrina Lynne Sagers Malinoski, disappeared from nearly one year earlier, five days before Thanksgiving in November 1987. When she did not show up for work, her boss went looking for her and found her car parked at the entrance to Mount Holly Plantation. An extensive search turned up no sign of Malinoski and she is still missing. Photographs and vital statistics for her are unavailable. She was 26 years old at the time of her disappearance, and has relatives living in Iowa.

Authorities discovered a penciled note at the bus stop after Sagers was reported missing. The note was addressed to Sagers's father and said, "Dad, momma came back. Give the boys a hug." Handwriting experts determined that the note was written by Sagers. There has been no other sign of either Sagers or Malinoski since 1988. No one saw anyone pick Sagers up.

Authorities do not know if Malinoski did return for Sagers; the child could have written the note under duress. Some theorize that Sagers knew something about her mother's disappearance and was silenced, but there is no evidence to support any theory.

In 2000, an anonymous caller directed police to search for a body in Sumter County. Investigators took a cadaver-sniffing dog to the location, but found no sign of any remains.

Sagers's case is classified as a Non-Family Abduction due to the lack of evidence regarding her and her mother's fates.


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I have read several books on this and I find it to be an incredible tale: (REALLY LONG READ AHEAD)

quote:
Gold!
The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure
Part I
From Freedom Magazine, June 1986


According to Freedom?s sources, hundreds ? perhaps thousands ? of tons of gold were secretly and illegally removed from Victorio Peak on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico between 1964 and 1977.
You are about to read a story that strains the imagination. It is about the disappearance of a fortune of up to $30 billion in gold bullion. When it was first presented as a ?tip? to a Freedom Magazine reporter in El Paso, Texas, in 1981, it was discounted as beyond belief. However, when dozens of unrelated, independent sources began to corroborate the story, it could no longer be disregarded, no matter how bizarre. The following story, constructed from personal interviews, documents and confidential reports, is the result of a five-year investigation.

By Thomas G. Whittle

In one of the most closely guarded crimes of recent history, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of tons of gold bullion were secretly and illegally removed from caverns on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, the beneficiaries allegedly including former President Lyndon Johnson and individuals connected with the U.S. Army, the Central Intelligence Agency and organized crime.

The caverns are located in and around Victorio Peak, in a remote, rugged section of south-central New Mexico.

The peak, named after a 19th century Apache war chief, apparently served as a repository for immense quantities of gold mined centuries ago by Spaniards and Indians and smelted into tens of thousands of crudely formed bars.


Between 1937 and 1939, Milton Ernest ?Doc? Noss (left) and his wife, Ova (right), working with family members and trusted associates, reportedly removed up to 350 gold bars from the depths of Victorio Peak.
An investigation by Freedom has probed the history of that region, particularly the nearly 49 years since gold bars were first found in that area in November 1937 by a man named Milton Ernest ?Doc? Noss, as fascinating a character as ever held a six-gun.

Background research into the enormous wealth contained in the caverns of Victorio Peak revealed many eyewitness reports of the gold.

In 1937, the peak was miles from nowhere. Its occasional visitors included hunting parties, and Doc Noss and his wife, Ova, were on one such expedition in search of deer. They had trekked in from Hot Springs, New Mexico, a town since renamed Truth or Consequences.

According to accounts from members of the Noss family, Doc bagged no deer, but he found something that whetted his appetite for the area ? a shaft near the top of Victorio Peak which led into the bowels of the mountain. Doc mentioned nothing of his find to the group, choosing instead to return to the site a couple of days later with Ova.

Using ropes for support and guided by his flashlight?s wavering beam, Doc Noss descended a series of interconnecting chambers which led downward for 186 feet.

Years later, in 1946, Doc discussed his exploration with Gordon E. Herkenhoff, field representative of the New Mexico State Land Office.1

In a four-page confidential report entitled ?Field Examination of Noss Mining Claims, Hembrillo District,? Herkenhoff recorded a description:

?Dr. Noss claims that beyond the 186-foot depth, there is an incline downward at 45 degrees for 72 feet.... Beyond that there is supposed to be another incline upward at about 30 degrees for some distance (40 feet as I remember it) where entrance is gained to a cave some 2700 feet long which contains many evidences that the cave was occupied as living quarters by a large group of humans for many years.?

The group evidently had some grisly practices, for the first thing Doc Noss encountered was a row of skeletons, 27 in all. Each skeleton had its hands bound behind it to a large wooden stake driven into the ground. Doc later brought one of the eerie things out.2

Doc?s object at the time of discovery, of course, was more than old bones. Passing through the large cavern, he came to a series of smaller caves ? ?rooms,? he called them. In one ?room? he discovered a large stash of old swords and guns, papers and letters from the 19th century, and a king?s ransom in jewels and coins.

Returning through the main cavern, he noticed an immense stack of metal bars off to one side. There were thousands of them, covered with old, dusty buffalo hides.

After he got back to the surface, Doc told Ova what he had seen, and almost as an afterthought mentioned the long row of metal bars. He also told his wife that there were ?enough gold and silver coins to load 60 to 80 mules.?

Ova convinced Doc to return to the big cave and bring one of the heavy bars back up. Begrudgingly, he did so.

After scraping a small section of the bar clean, she exclaimed, ?Doc, this is gold!?

Letha Guthrie, Ova?s eldest daughter from a previous marriage, described the next few years as a very happy time for the Noss family, one of simple, hard work with a bright, limitless future. Deferring to Doc?s belief that the gold would all be taken by the government should his find become too broadly known, the work force was confined to the immediate family and a couple of handfuls of trusted associates.

Ova Noss, her two sons, Harold and Marvin, and her two daughters, Letha and Dorothy, helped Doc in the strenuous task of removing the bars, one at a time, from the depths of the peak. Letha told Freedom that she herself handled 12 to 15 of the bars, ?and I even put one up and hid it for four days.?

Six men who worked with Doc in removing the gold ? C.D. Patterson, Don Breech, Edgar F. Foreman, Leo D. O?Connell, Eppie Montoya and B.D. Lampros ? later signed sworn affidavits regarding their experiences.

Lampros, for example, described having his photograph taken with Colonel Willard E. Holt of Lordsburg, New Mexico; each held an end of a bar while it was being sawed in half.

Joe Andregg, an electrician from Santa Fe, New Mexico, reflected on the days when he worked with Doc Noss in the late 1930s. ?I was just a kid, about 13 or 14 years old,? he told this writer. Asked about the bars, he said, ?I sawed one in two with a hacksaw.?

One person who worked with Doc Noss inside the cave was Jose Serafin Sedillo of Cuchillo, New Mexico. He told this writer that the gold bars in the cave were ?stacked like cordwood.?

The bars that Noss and his crew removed from Victorio Peak were, in general, crudely formed, indicating the use of primitive smelting processes.

Estimates vary on the number of bars removed, ranging up to 350 or so.

According to members of the family, there would have been more, but Doc?s work was abruptly and unexpectedly brought to a halt in August 1939 when a dynamite blast, set to enlarge a narrow passage, instead caved the passage in, sealing off the main cavern.

Doc Noss spent the next 10 years in intermittent efforts to regain access to the hoard, in vain. He worked with a succession of partners, the last of whom, Charlie Ryan of Alice, Texas, shot and killed Noss in an altercation in Hatch, New Mexico, on March 5, 1949.

The night before his death, perhaps sensing that a business deal was going sour, Doc enlisted the aid of a cowboy named Tony Jolley to shuffle the locations of various stashes of the bars. There were 110 gold bars moved that night, according to an affidavit obtained by this writer and sworn to by Jolley.

The affidavit states, in part: ?In March of 1949 I handled 110 rough [sic] poured bars of gold in the area which is now White Sands Missile Range which is now the area of Victorio Peak. On the night of March 4, 1949, I went with Doc Noss and dug up 20 bars of gold at a windmill in the desert east of Hatch, New Mexico, and reburied them in the basin where Victorio Peak is. We took 90 bars ... stacked by a mine shaft at Victorio Peak and reburied them 10 in a pile scattered throughout the basin with the exception of 30 bars that we buried in a grassy flat near the road we came out on.?

After the death of Doc Noss, Ova and her family continued efforts to regain access to the big treasure room. The U.S. Army, which gained control of the area when it was converted to a bombing range during the Second World War, refused her request to bring in an excavation firm and ultimately ordered the Nosses to stay out of the area.

Word of the Doc Noss treasure spread, and keeping people out of the area was no easy chore. In November 1958, a team of four weekend gold seekers rediscovered the hoard.

Led by U.S. Air Force Captain Leonard V. Fiege, the four had done extensive research on Victorio Peak, poring over old documents and records, and even traveling south into Mexico to check stories there regarding a man who has often been linked with the origin of the gold, Padre Philip La Rue.

All four men ? Fiege, Thomas Berlett, Ken Prather and Milleadge Wessel ? were, at the time of their find, employees at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. This writer conducted extensive interviews with Thomas Berlett. According to Berlett, the four men proceeded down a fault into the peak for about 150 feet, at which point their progress was stopped by a large boulder. They dug under it, and Berlett and Fiege moved past it for another 100 to 125 feet, coming eventually to what Berlett described as a small cavern, approximately eight feet wide by 10 or 12 feet long.

In the room were two large stacks of gold bars, each roughly six feet high, three feet wide and eight feet long. A third, smaller stack, pyramidal in shape, stood about three feet high.

Berlett and Fiege had found a different passage into Victorio Peak, leading into a different chamber.

The room had been undisturbed for so long that the dust, according to Berlett, lay several inches thick. The slightest movement stirred up a cloud. Nearly choking, the two men hastily marked their claim and made their exit.

Before leaving, both men had observed an old wooden cross on one of the walls. Berlett viewed this as substantiation for the theory that Spaniards had been responsible for stashing the gold.

In September 1961, Berlett and Fiege swore to the specifics of their discovery in detailed affidavits provided to federal officials. They also were given ? and passed ? lie detector tests.

Among those who attested to the accessibility of the peak?s treasure was Lynn Porter, a businessman now residing in San Diego, California.

On the night of September 1, 1968, Porter drove to the peak with a friend and a civilian security guard from White Sands Missile Range named Clarence McDonald. The three men had been on a hunting party when McDonald, who reportedly had imbibed several cans of beer, began talking freely about a huge stash of gold. Porter and his friends were amused at his story and McDonald, to prove that what he was saying was true, took the two other hunters on a moonlit drive to Victorio Peak.

A narrow passage through rocks kept the bulky Porter from following the other two men into the depths of the peak. He stood guard while McDonald and the other man descended into a large cavern, returning with a crudely formed gold bar roughly 2 1/2 inches wide by 7 inches long.

The gold, Porter?s friend stated breathlessly, ran in a tremendous stack along one side of the cavern ? stretching for approximately 200 yards. The two men told Porter they had taken one of the smaller bars from the stack because they felt it would be easier to handle than one of the large bars in moving through the long and sometimes difficult passage.

After some discussion, the men decided that Porter should take the bar to a close friend of his who worked in the provost marshal?s office in nearby Fort Bliss, Texas. Possession of gold was against the law at the time, and the men reasoned that the bar would provide evidence to bring about an authorized, legal expedition to remove the vast quantity of gold. The men believed that Porter?s friend was in a good position to help arrange an official government expedition to claim the gold.

Porter subsequently brought the gold bar to the close friend, who was an Army major.

The major took the bar and told Porter to check back with him in a few days. He did, only to find that in the short, three-day interim the major had been whisked away, transferred to the Pentagon. His wife and his two school-age children had also abruptly left.

The gold bar had disappeared without a trace. No one in the provost marshal?s office to whom Porter talked would admit to knowing anything about the gold, and he was warned by the provost marshal that any future ?trespassing? would be dealt with severely.

There is evidence to indicate that many gold bars were removed from Victorio Peak a short time after Lynn Porter brought the bar to the Fort Bliss provost marshal?s office.

Going public with information about the gold stored in Victorio Peak or removed from it, however, is something that people familiar with the subject are generally reluctant to do. And for good reason.

Chester Stout, for example, a retired Army sergeant, traced the removal of two large truckloads of gold from Victorio Peak, but later had to move out of New Mexico; his life was threatened because, as he was told, he ?knew too much.?

In all, eight persons told this writer they had received direct threats against their lives or against the lives of their families. Sam Scott, for example, a retired airline pilot, was warned in 1977 to keep clear of anything regarding Victorio Peak for at least five years under pain of having his home firebombed and his wife and daughter killed.

The sources of this threat, according to the man who relayed the threat to Scott, were two agents of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency.

The daughter of another man, Harvey Snow, died from a gunshot wound in the head after Snow had disregarded repeated warnings in regard to the peak.

Thayer Snipes of El Paso, Texas, swore to an affidavit regarding another death. The affidavit states:

?I, Thayer Snipes, first being duly sworn, on my oath state:

?That in the latter part of 1972, I had stopped by the Airport Chevron Station at the corner of Airway Blvd. and Montana Ave. in El Paso, Texas, to visit with a friend, Frank Foss, owner of the station.

?That while visiting Foss, a man we both knew, E.M. Guthrie, drove in to the station in a late model Ford Thunderbird.

?That I had known E.M. Guthrie for about three years prior to this meeting and knew him to be the husband of Letha Guthrie, stepdaughter of Milton Ernest ?Doc? Noss.

?That I knew E.M. Guthrie had taken an active personal interest in the fate of gold located in Victorio Peak by Doc Noss.

?That I walked over to E.M. Guthrie on this occasion in 1972, greeted him, and invited him out to dinner with myself and Frank Foss.

?That he seemed very disturbed, nervous and agitated, and refused my invitation to dinner, saying, ?I?m running for my life.?

?That he also said, ?The Mob is after me.?

?That three or four weeks later Frank Foss told me that E.M. had called him and said he was in Central America.

?That about a month after that, I heard E.M. had been beaten to death in California.

?That after he had been beaten to death, according to the information I received, his body was put back into his car, the car was doused with kerosene or gasoline, and then set aflame.?

Another source confirmed the manner and the circumstances of E.M. Guthrie?s death, noting that ?it was listed as just a natural death, but he?d been worked over with a baseball bat.? This source said that he had hired a team of experienced investigators to dig into Guthrie?s death and more than 30 other deaths in connection with a massive, continuing cover-up of the removal of gold from Victorio Peak.

Bill Shriver, an international dealer in precious metals who proved very helpful in the initial stages of this investigation until his death, brought the total still higher. According to a close relative interviewed by Freedom, Shriver was ?murdered.? The relative said that Shriver ?was beaten up in California, beaten about the kidneys and the head? and subsequently died from his injuries.

The cloud of death shrouding Victorio Peak has reached far.

Edward Atkins of Decatur, Illinois, had been a claimant to the peak?s gold and was vigorously pursuing that claim via attorney Darrell Holmes of Athens, Georgia, when Holmes died under mysterious circumstances.

According to Atkins? son, John, Holmes possessed key materials which were being used to press the Army into allowing Atkins and Holmes access to Victorio Peak. These materials, including tape-recorded sessions wherein Lyndon Johnson discussed the disposition of some of the gold bars on his ranch, disappeared from Holmes? office at the time of his death in February 1977.

Edward Atkins himself died, reportedly of a heart attack, in April 1979 while returning to Illinois from El Paso on a matter pertaining to his claim. At least one close relative was convinced that Atkins? death was not accidental and that it was directly related to his getting too close to the true story of Victorio Peak.

Lyndon Johnson?s name loomed large in the information that Freedom uncovered, with various sources claiming that the president was instrumental in the planning and execution of the removal of the gold. The charges concerning LBJ?s involvement included the following:


A retired White Sands Missile Range security guard, residing in El Paso, Texas, indicated that he observed Johnson and former Texas Governor John Connally spending about 10 days in the desolate area around Victorio Peak in the late 1960s. According to the security guard, Johnson and Connally headed a team which brought in sophisticated excavation equipment to remove gold from the peak, ?the most modern I?ve ever seen,? he said. ?They even brought in their own security guards,? he added.

A retired U.S. Army officer said that while on duty at the provost marshal?s office on White Sands Missile Range during the period of LBJ?s presidency, he was visited by four men in a late model Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham who sought permission to drive to Victorio Peak. One man, a Mr. Moon, said that he was from the White House Secret Service detail and he showed the officer a green, laminated card which stated ?Secret Service, Division of the White House.? Another man, an engineer named Dick Richardson, told the officer that he was a boyhood friend of Lyndon Johnson?s and that he had personally counted 18,888 gold bars in one stack in a cavern at Victorio Peak, each bar weighing about 60 pounds.3

Bill Shriver, before his death, told this writer that he had a copy of a transcribed order from Lyndon Johnson describing in detail how the president wanted a military escort to handle the supply of gold taken out of Victorio Peak and taken to his ranch. Shriver also said that he had copies of other ?presidential messages, several initialed by LBJ,? dealing with the clandestine, illegal removal of the gold.

A source interviewed in Mexico stated that it was common knowledge in the towns of Jimenez and Camargo that Johnson?s 110,000-acre ranch in Chihuahua served as a storage area for a very large amount of gold flown in by a four-engine, propeller-driven aircraft in the late 1960s.

Still another source reported knowledge of aircraft movements of the gold from Chihuahua to Vancouver, British Columbia, during the period of Johnson?s presidency. According to this source, a B-24 was used to transport at least seven loads of the peak?s gold, with up to 20 tons of gold moving in each load.

Another source, who asked to remain unidentified, stated that he had personally interviewed several men who had brought a large load of the peak?s gold to Johnson?s ranch.
According to this same source, Victorio Peak ?was just like a private vault to certain high-ranking people.? They would ?go in periodically and get what they wanted. They would have the proper persons on guard duty.?

Possession of gold by private American citizens was illegal under federal law throughout the period of the Johnson presidency. In addition, Victorio Peak lay on land owned by the state of New Mexico, and removal of gold without permission of the state violated New Mexico law.4

A number of sources also independently named Major General John G. Shinkle, the commander of White Sands Missile Range from June 1960 to July 1962, as knowing about the movement of tons of gold from Victorio Peak. Reached for comment in Cocoa Beach, Florida, General Shinkle adamantly denied any knowledge of the gold and refused to comment at all on the story.

Large movements of bullion from the peak went on for nearly a decade, with the largest single removal of gold occurring in 1976, according to Bill Shriver. This was shortly before a much-publicized expedition, entitled Operation Goldfinder, took place at the site in March 1977.

Shriver estimated the total amount of gold removed from Victorio Peak at 25 million troy ounces, of which 10 million came out in 1976. The gold, he said, was removed and ?smelted into old Mexican bars, 50-pound bars.? The gold in its new form, he noted, had no marks to identify its origin.

The gold was then shipped to Switzerland and sold in a new form in Zurich. ?The buying entity was a Middle Eastern principal,? Shriver said.

The actual movement of the gold in this last, largest shipment, Shriver said, was ?done by [U.S.] military aircraft.? Independent of Shriver, another source traced a number of large removals from Victorio Peak. He estimated the total amount of gold coming from the peak at a staggering 96 million troy ounces, worth, at $320 an ounce, nearly $31 billion.

Army spokesmen have consistently dismissed all reports of Victorio Peak gold as ?rumors.? An apparent propaganda campaign, in fact, has been conducted for many years by the Army in order to dispel these reports and to keep treasure seekers away from the missile range.

Part II: The bizarre history of Victorio Peak continues to unravel as the Army, the Treasury Department and the Secret Service authorize a top secret operation aimed at locating and bringing out the gold.

Ova Noss, Leonard Fiege and others don?t listen when they are told to ?shut up? ? and they pay the price.


References:
1 Freedom Magazine obtained copies of the 1946 New Mexico land office correspondence regarding Doc Noss? claim.
2 Chester R. Johnson Jr., ?Explorations at Victorio Peak,? Division of Research, Museum of New Mexico, 1963. The official version of this report, released after U.S. Army censorship, deleted numerous key references to gold bars and to secret government activities contained in Chester R. Johnson?s original report. The author obtained copies of both the official version and the original, uncensored report.
3 While the purity of the gold cannot be accurately assessed at this time, the mid-1960s value of this stack, which was about one-third of the total amount in that cavern, would be more than $400 million at $32 per troy ounce. At a 1986 value of $320 per troy ounce, that stack alone would be worth more than $4 billion.
4 Those who took the gold were also taking it over what had been claims filed by Doc Noss, members of his family and others who had staked claims to the gold with the state of New Mexico as early as the 1930s. U.S. Army rights to use the land did not include mineral rights, which were retained by the state.

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quote:
Gold!
The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure
Part II
From Freedom Magazine, July 1986


According to Freedom?s sources, hundreds ? perhaps thousands ? of tons of gold were secretly and illegally removed from Victorio Peak on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico between 1964 and 1977.
In the first part of this series, Freedom reported the bizarre story of a fabulous hoard of up to $30 billion in gold bullion sequestered in a remote location on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.

A large number of sources had reported to Freedom that the gold was secretly and illegally removed from its underground chambers by a combination of interests that allegedly included the U.S. Army, the Central Intelligence Agency, organized crime and former President Lyndon B. Johnson.

The peak?s modern history began in November 1937 with the discovery by Milton Ernest ?Doc? Noss of an immense quantity of gold bars. Over a period of about 21 months, Noss removed a large number of gold bars from one of the caverns, a fact attested to by more than a dozen people who worked directly with him. Estimates on the number of bars removed by Doc Noss and his co-workers range up to approximately 350.

During an attempt to enlarge a passage to the gold in August 1939, the shaft caved in, leading to frenzied and unsuccessful efforts by Doc, his family and a few close associates to regain access to the hoard through hundreds of feet of rocks and rubble.

Nineteen years after the cave-in, in November 1958, U.S. Air Force Captain Leonard V. Fiege led a team of treasure hunters who discovered a second, smaller treasure in another Victorio Peak cavern.

As described in Part I, Fiege and Airman Thomas L. Berlett found three stacks of gold bars that had lain undisturbed for so many years that they were covered by several inches of thick dust.

Freedom also unveiled some of the further history of Victorio Peak, including numerous reports by eyewitnesses and others that a tremendous quantity of gold bars were secretly and illegally removed from the mountain over a period of years, principally from 1964 to 1977.

In this article, Freedom continues the story.


By Thomas G. Whittle

The clandestine removal of tons of gold from Victorio Peak left legitimate claimants to the treasure with no money and little recourse. Principal among these unlucky individuals were Ova Noss and Leonard Fiege.

Ova had been with Doc Noss when he made his 1937 discovery of the tremendous stash of gold bullion inside Victorio Peak.

Fiege, Thomas Berlett and their companions ? Ken Prather and Milleadge Wessel ? were, at the time of their find, employees of Holloman Air Force Base, located just east of White Sands Missile Range.

As leader of the four treasure hunters, Fiege worked within the Air Force chain of command to get permission to legally return to Hembrillo Basin ? the large, bowl-shaped area surrounding Victorio Peak ? in order to recover the treasure.

In seeking to return to the site of his find, Fiege solicited the assistance of Holloman?s staff judge advocate, Lieutenant Colonel Sigmund I. Gasiewicz.

The aboveboard attempts by Fiege, Berlett and their companions were stymied, however. The White Sands commander, Major General John G. Shinkle, refused all requests for permission to enter the area, including one made by Air Force Major General Monte Canterbury on behalf of Fiege and his companions.

In August 1961, after forming a partnership with three Air Force attorneys, the men were allowed to meet in Washington, D.C., with senior representatives of the Department of the Army, the Department of the Treasury, the Secret Service and the Bureau of the Mint. Chairing the meeting was the director of the Bureau of the Mint. At the meeting, the four treasure hunters and the three lawyers stated their case. And, nearly three years after the discovery, the men were finally allowed to return.

The operation itself, a five-day affair in August 1961, was ?carried out as a top secret project,? according to a heavily censored Secret Service report.

Those accompanying the four treasure hunters included General Shinkle and agent Liliburn ?Pat? Boggs from the Secret Service?s Albuquerque office.

The passage used by Fiege and Berlett in reaching the gold was found. Unfortunately, as noted in the Secret Service report, the final 40 feet to the gold ?was blocked by large boulders that could not be removed by hand or shoveled away.? Although the expedition had General Shinkle as a supervisor and 14 armed military policemen as guards, no equipment heavier than shovels and picks had been brought. It ended fruitlessly.

A heavily deleted August 31, 1961, Secret Service memorandum obtained by Freedom shows that on that date the missile range?s provost marshal met with Pat Boggs in the Albuquerque Secret Service office. The provost marshal stated that he was seeing Boggs at the order of the missile range commander.

According to the memorandum, the commander, General Shinkle, ?was anxious to determine the degree of interest? of the Secret Service in the gold.

In the memorandum, Boggs records that the interview with the provost marshal was interrupted by a telephone call from the Holloman commander, who wanted to know whether the Treasury Department would ?permit exploration of the tunnel on weekends.?

Boggs resumed his interview with the provost marshal. The provost marshal ?stated that should any gold be recovered from the tunnel, he would immediately notify the writer [Boggs] so that possession of the gold could be taken by this Service for delivery to the Federal Reserve Bank Branch at El Paso, Texas.?

After a flurry of additional memos, reports and top secret conferences, work at the site continued, this time with heavier equipment.

In the interim, Fiege and Berlett had authenticated affidavits they had previously written regarding the gold they had found by taking, and passing, lie detector tests. After those tests, the order to dig came ? not from General Shinkle, but from Secretary of the Army Elvis J. Stahr Jr.

New Mexico law is quite clear on the point that there can be no mining or treasure troving on any land in the state without approval of the State Land Office. In carrying forward with this top secret project, neither the Army nor the Secret Service had consulted with that office.

On October 28, 1961, word of the digging leaked out after four civilians ? friends of Ova Noss ? ?wandered? into Hembrillo Basin.

News of the Army?s activities quickly reached Ova, who wasted no time in telling Oscar Jordan, general counsel of the State Land Office in Santa Fe, that her claim was being jumped.

Jordan sent S.A. Floersheim, supervisor of the State Land Office?s Lands and Minerals Division, to investigate. Floersheim, in a memorandum dated November 6, 1961, wrote that he contacted Colonel Jaffe, the White Sands staff judge advocate.

Floersheim told Jaffe that he wanted ?to make an investigation of the land down there in question to determine if any activity on the part of unauthorized persons had taken place.?

The colonel, in Floersheim?s words, ?was not too cooperative.?

When Floersheim indicated that if necessary he would secure a court order from a U.S. district judge, Colonel Jaffe ?attempted to assure me that there was no operation, that it was all a myth.?

The ?myth,? however, was quickly shown to be fact. The four men who had visited the peak ? Ray Bradley, Bob Bradley, Hugh Moreland and R.B. Gray ? had drawn up notarized affidavits of what they saw and heard. The affidavits were specific, down to the serial number on one of the jeeps.

Before Jaffe was confronted with the affidavits, he told essentially the same story to Ova Noss and her attorney, and on a separate occasion to Ova?s son, Harold Beckwith.

According to a later account, ?When informed of the affidavits, he [Colonel Jaffe] became quite upset.?

Eventually, Oscar Jordan and S.A. Floersheim got the digging to stop. The Army?s less-than-straightforward practices, however, were not corrected.

A report, for example, entitled ?Explorations at Victorio Peak,? was prepared by the Museum of New Mexico in 1963, summarizing the highlights of the peak?s history. This report was heavily censored by the Army. All references to Captain Fiege?s 1958 discovery of gold bars and to the subsequent illegal excavation efforts by the Army ? two full pages of material ? were removed from the final report.1

Furthermore, the Army misrepresented some important excavation work in 1963 done by the museum and Gaddis Mining Company of Denver, Colorado.

The museum had obtained permission to conduct an expedition to Victorio Peak in 1963. As a key part of the expedition, extensive digging was done by Gaddis Mining Company in an attempt to contact a passage that would lead to one of the caverns.

The Gaddis team ran out of its allotted time and money before it could reach the shaft that would have led to a cavern. The team, therefore, was forced to leave the site before completing its work.

The man who supervised the work for Gaddis on the 1963 expedition, geologist Loren Smith of Denver, was not happy with the results and wanted to return to finish the job. As recently as 1981, Smith wrote a letter to the secretary of the Army requesting permission to conduct a 90-day search.

?We didn?t give up,? Smith told this writer in reference to the 1963 expedition. ?We just ran out of money. We had spent $100,000, and when we ran out we were getting close to where Fiege found the bars.?

The Museum of New Mexico also wanted to get back in. In a 1965 application to return to the peak, the museum stated, ?The results of the exploration program conducted in 1963 proved the existence of a number of open cavities within Victorio Peak similar to those described by the individual who claimed to have been in the caves and seen the artifacts and treasure.?

And yet, through the 1960s and 1970s, the Army would repeatedly and falsely state that the 1963 expedition had ?proved? there were no caves or caverns.

According to Sam Scott, a retired airline pilot who with his brother, Norman, led another expedition into the area in 1977, the Gaddis effort got very close to the fault which led down to the main cavern ? the passage which Doc Noss had apparently used to haul up hundreds of bars of gold.

The Army consistently misrepresented what occurred on the Gaddis expedition, citing the ?negative results? of the 1963 expedition as a reason all future treasure searches would forever be banned as a matter of official policy.

The reason was never sufficient, however. In the late 1960s and into the 1970s, pressure for a bona fide search for the treasure continued to mount.

Among the leaders in the push for a new expedition was nationally known attorney F. Lee Bailey, who represented a group of some 52 claimants to the gold. A search of at least a cursory nature seemed inevitable.

Another expedition to the peak was finally mounted. With a twist of irony, this very limited search was dubbed by the Army ?Operation Goldfinder.? Although brief and tightly constrained, it became the ultimate excuse to ban people from Victorio Peak.

The ostensible purpose of Goldfinder, as expressed at the time by expedition leader Norman Scott, was to ?validate or not validate? stories about the gold and other treasure.

When contacted, Scott said that he and his company, Expeditions Unlimited Inc. of Pompano Beach, Florida, had been ?used? by the Army.

Asked to elaborate, Scott expressed the theory that he had served as a ?patsy? to give the appearance of a search in order to release the tremendous pressure that had been brought to bear on the Army by F. Lee Bailey and others.

One of the claimants to the gold who was there during Operation Goldfinder was Joe Newman of El Paso, Texas. Newman told this writer that he had found three piles of gold bars in a small cave within the peak in November 1973. He counted the bars in one pile ? there were 600. The other piles were identical. Each bar, he said, weighed up to 60 pounds. They were roughly formed, as though from a primitive smelting process.

Newman provided photographs to Freedom showing extensive activity around Victorio Peak shortly before Operation Goldfinder. According to Newman, the photographs demonstrate that Victorio Peak gold was removed just weeks before the expedition.

By the time of Operation Goldfinder, the entrance Newman used to gain access to the small cavern was covered up by the Army. All possible entrances to the peak, according to Newman, had been sealed with concrete, steel bars, steel plates, mounds of earth, or two or more of those in combination.

?There was no way in hell we could get in there without heavy equipment,? Newman said. ? And then we showed up there without bulldozers, without backhoes, without anything but picks and shovels.?

When heavy equipment finally did arrive at the site, both Newman and Sam Scott charge, its use was restricted to locations where ?we knew there wasn?t any gold.?

Attorney F. Lee Bailey had similar words. Bailey acknowledged that his group ? one of a half-dozen claimant groups on the expedition ? had been stopped in its efforts to dig at Bloody Hands, a site in an arroyo by Victorio Peak so named because of five red hand prints on the arroyo wall.

Because those he represented couldn?t look where they wanted to, Bailey told this writer that the expedition ?didn?t really prove anything one way or another.?

There was universal agreement among all of the participants interviewed ? except for Army spokesmen ? that the 1977 expedition had been poorly executed and had not satisfactorily explored for gold.

Sam Scott charged that the expedition was ?conceived to fail.? He continued, ?I originally made arrangements for a 60-day expedition. The Army cut that down to 30 and then to 10.?

Nearly 19 years after he had made the dramatic three-stack find, Leonard Fiege crawled down the long passage which led to the same room. In the intervening years, much had changed.

As Fiege told newsmen during Operation Goldfinder, ?It?s entirely different. There are timbers in there now. It?s all shored up.? And the gold was gone.


Ova Noss continued to press the family?s claim to the treasure after Doc Noss was shot and killed in 1949. Here she makes a point during Operation Goldfinder in 1977.
Ova Noss climbed to the top of the peak. In the same place she had scraped the crusty covering from the first bar Doc had brought out of the mountain in 1937, 40 years before, the 81-year-old Ova shouted to the wind, ?******* Army took the gold!?

While the gold had apparently been removed right from under the claimaints? noses, Operation Goldfinder was important in that it provided high-tech proof that Victorio Peak harbored a very sizable cave. Using sophisticated ground-penetrating radar, a team from Stanford Research Institute headed by Lambert Dolphin determined that there indeed was a very large cavern situated right at the base of Victorio Peak. ?It?s about where Doc Noss said it is,? Dolphin told this writer.

The geological structure of the peak is odd, according to Dolphin. Regarding the cavern, he said that ?It?s an unusual geological formation, more or less a freak of nature, but it?s there.?

Dolphin is one of the many Goldfinder participants who sought to return to the site. His scientific interest was not shared by the Army, which summarily turned down his 1977 request for re-entry.

Dolphin would like to reach the big cavern, and he had the idea of lowering a remotely operated television camera through a shaft in order to see what remains in the cave described by Doc Noss as being ?big enough for a freight train.?

Expressing a thought echoed by virtually everyone interviewed for this article, outside of military spokesmen, Dolphin said that the Army had been very active in and around the mountain. ?Everybody who was there would like to know why the Army dug up the mountain so thoroughly,? said Dolphin. ?You could see they went in through the existing openings, explored them, and then covered them over.?

One source familiar with Victorio Peak?s history who asked to remain unidentified described the mountain as being ?like a hotel.? There were ?five layers of caverns in that mountain,? he said.

The top caverns or rooms held ?as little as 10 or 15 tons? of gold, according to this source. The bigger caverns were not all cleared out until the 1970s.

Operation Goldfinder ?was all basically a show,? said Sam Scott. ?Something the Army could turn around and say ? ?See? This proves there?s no gold!??

But, at the time, the Victorio Peak show was one of the hottest things around. Scores of reporters from various news media were on hand, including CBS-TV?s Dan Rather.

According to several sources, Lady Byrd Johnson, the widow of former President Lyndon Johnson, reportedly called White Sands every day during the expedition in order to be kept posted.

This writer endeavored to reach Mrs. Johnson but was told that any questions had to be submitted via a staff assistant in Austin, Texas.

The answer that came back was that ?Mrs. Johnson has no knowledge about that [the phone calls] at all.? The assistant said that Lady Byrd ?was entertaining friends here? at the time of the expedition, and, she asserted, ?Mrs. Johnson just doesn?t do things like that. It would be out of character for her.?2

By the last day of Operation Goldfinder, a carefully orchestrated public relations scenario had apparently done its work. Those most closely connected with the treasure had seen their dreams trampled and their claims ridiculed. For them, the 1977 expedition must have represented the end of any hope of confirmation of what they knew to be true.

One of these people was Leonard Fiege.

Sam Scott and Fiege were close friends. According to Scott, ?Fiege was threatened. He didn?t like to talk about it. But that?s why he left the 1977 expedition early.?

In an affidavit in the possession of Freedom, Thayer Snipes of El Paso, Texas, confirms the threat and sheds some additional light on the overall situation.

The affidavit states that Snipes first met Dr. Robert Welch of Denver, Colorado, around 1975 or 1976. Welch, according to the affidavit, went to Snipes? home on several occasions to buy turquoise for jewelry .

On one of these occasions, the affidavit states, Welch gave Snipes his business card. The card identified Welch as a medical doctor and a psychiatrist, although he jokingly referred to himself as a ?head shrinker.?

The subject of treasure at Victorio Peak came up on one occasion. On this occasion, according to Snipes? affidavit, ?Dr. Welch stated that a U.S. Air Force captain had been sent to his office by the military.?

Snipes continues, ?Dr. Welch stated that ?the military wanted this man to be put away,? which he further explained as meaning locked away in an insane asylum.

? ... Dr. Welch stated that on numerous occasions he hypnotized the captain.

? ... while under hypnosis, the captain told him he had found gold bars in a cave in Victorio Peak.

? ... also while under hypnosis, the captain stated he had held gold bars in his hands and had covered up stacks of gold bars with rocks and dirt, intending to return later and retrieve the treasure legally.

? ... Dr. Welch stated that he felt he could not put this man away because he was telling him the truth about the gold, and that he could not lie while under hypnosis.?

Snipes? affidavit states that ?I later met U.S. Air Force Captain Leonard V. Fiege while on the March 1977 expedition to Victorio Peak.

? ... while on the expedition, I told Captain Fiege the story in front of several witnesses.

? ... Captain Fiege?s reaction to the story was one of extreme surprise and shock.

? ... Captain Fiege said he remembered being sent to a psychiatrist named Robert Welch by the military, but that he did not realize that he had been hypnotized.?

According to the affidavit, ?Captain Fiege said he had been shipped overseas after finding gold in Victorio Peak, and that he had been ?harassed ever since? by the military.?

The affidavit states that Fiege ?said he was going to investigate the matter of his visits to the psychiatrist and see what had happened during those visits.?

The affidavit closes with the statement that ?Captain Fiege left the expedition a couple of days later, saying that he and his family had been threatened with death if he continued his efforts to prove gold had been in Victorio Peak.?

Fiege did leave the expedition, but, as described by Sam Scott and others, threats did not shut him up.

Scott signed a sworn affidavit regarding the harassment and intimidation leveled at Fiege which only ended with his death in 1979.

According to this affidavit, ?I can recall many occasions (probably 10) that Leonard told me about his harassments and the threats to his and his children?s lives. For example, the time that Leonard spoke to a Lion?s Club luncheon in Milwaukee, only to be threatened that night on the telephone. Then there was the time that he was told at supper time what his kids had for lunch in the school cafeteria, their route to and from school, times, etc. Again, a nasty voice on the telephone ? a threat on their lives.?

In a personal interview, Fiege?s daughter, Jan, confirmed for this writer the fact of the threats which plagued the family. In 1971 or 1972, for example, shortly after moving to Denton, Texas, she received a phone call from her father telling her that he had just received a call threatening all three of his children if he did not keep his mouth shut about Victorio Peak. Fiege had called her to see if she was all right. The caller knew where all three of his children were, Fiege told his daughter. He even knew that Jan had just taken a job at a diner in Denton. The bewildered Fiege told his daughter that with the operator?s help he had been able to trace the call to Kansas City, Missouri ? hundreds of miles from himself in Wisconsin and from his daughter in Texas.

According to Jan, she returned to the family home in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, not too long after that and heard a threatening voice on the phone there herself. The male caller told her that unless her father shut up about Victorio Peak, someone was ?going to die.?

Similar threats were made to others. Harvey Snow, for example, was told over the phone where each of his five children were by geographic coordinates ? including a son who was on a U.S. Navy ship in the Pacific at the time. Snow was told to stay away from White Sands Missile Range or his children would be killed. Snow disregarded the warning, and his youngest daughter was found shot to death shortly thereafter.

A grandson of Ova Noss described an apparent attempt on Ova?s life to Freedom. Shortly after the expedition, someone entered her house at night by forcing a window. The intruder turned on the gas on the stove. ?If we hadn?t gotten there,? the grandson said, ?in 10 or 15 minutes, she would have had it.?

As it was, Ova had to be hospitalized. The grandson mentioned that after the expedition, Ova?s home was broken into two or three more times. Various items connected to Doc Noss? treasure were stolen.

By the end of 1979, both Leonard Fiege and Ova Noss ? the two major living claimants to the gold ? were dead.

While it cannot be proven that their names should join the roster of people who died in connection with an apparently violent cover-up of the removal of gold from Victorio Peak, their deaths did mark the end of vigorous pursuit of the gold by active claimants.

Nearly 10 years after Operation Goldfinder failed to answer the many questions about Victorio Peak, the mystery surrounding the treasure has deepened and darkened.


References:
1 ?Explorations at Victorio Peak,? by Chester R. Johnson Jr., Division of Research, Museum of New Mexico, 1963. Freedom Magazine obtained copies of both the censored and uncensored reports, as well as copies of the affidavits mentioned above from the four men.
2 For the role that President Johnson played in the removal of tons of gold bullion from Victorio Peak, see Part 1.

There is rock solid evidence that the Army cleaned out the treasure as one of the men working on the shaft carved his name, rank and date in the shaft and it was found 20 some odd years later when during an early 90's excavation of the peak by Ova's family.
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quote:
Doc Ness was shot after he hid some gold he had already promised a potential black market suitor. Doc had been screwed on 60,000 dollars worth of gold in an earlier deal and thus was paranoid and wanted the cash up front.

Doc was so paranoid, he even thought his wife, Babe, may be contacting authorities - this strained the relationship and led to Doc leaving her. Apparently Babe was originally fearful that Doc had found a new way into the "Treasure room" and became trapped.

Early on after Doc discovered the treasure, he apparently hired a teenager to go down to the room with him to help recover some of the gold - the deal went sour fast when the teen apparently tried to steal some.

There were 7 claimiants to the gold in the late 70's when the army allowed a brief, but massive search on the Peak (after they bulldozed shut all known entries and put steel doors over certain spots) Babe Noss was one, Doc Noss' mistress was another and Jesse James the 3rd tried to claim it was his grand father's loot.

LBJ is widely believed to have orchestrated the removal of the gold and held it at his ranch briefly. When a geologist team was given permission to search the peak in the early 00's, they were banned from a side of the peak where it's apparently obvious the military created a mine to take the gold.

Babe contacted the Denver mint and upset Doc greatly that she exposed their secret, but later Doc would bring gold into a mint and receive a paper bond good to be cashed in for near 6 figures, once gold was legalized for private ownership again. The paper was lost when Doc was killed, and apparently some evidence is available to show the government confiscated it.

Babe Noss died from complications of a broken hip - and was cremated with out the families consent - perhaps to cover up a botched surgery.

Doc may have learned of the treasure via a fellow prisoner who was an Apache Indian from the area.



quote:
The book "100 Tons of Gold" which came out right after "operation Goldfinder" in the 70's claims Doc was a pro con artist (unlicensed foot doc and for a time a radio host claiming to be a horoscope expert or some such) He was also a drunk and was actually drinking heavily when he and the TNT expert were arguing over how much explosives to use (Which ended with the mine shaft caved in).

The author says Doc had actually stolen the treasure in another set of mountains, from men who stole it from another man (and that man killed some one over the gold - HISTORY!) He snuck the gold into Victorio Peak and hid it in a shaft he was shown years earlier (and an eye witness came out saying the shaft had been empty 3 years prior to Doc's gold claim).

Doc then "discovered" the gold there but partially sealed up the passage with an explosion (which is why he had such trouble getting in and out out the shaft) before the later explosion that blocked him out completely. Several people went to the treasure room with Noss and at least one man stole gold from Doc.

By the end Doc had spent and been cheated out of most of the money he had made from selling the gold and had then started using fake gold bars to attract business partners in digging the gold out.



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Arnold_OldSchool
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quote:
Originally posted by ehrjr from L.I.,N.Y.:

Black Dahlia case is still unsolved.

http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/02/04/Black-Dahlia-case-solved-by-death-sniffing-dog/3861360014973/


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Cynthia Celeste Miller from KS
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The Bloody Benders has always fascinated me, probably because I live within a 15-minute drive of where the murders happened. And no one knows for sure what happened to the murderous family; some claim to have caught them and lynched them, but nothing was ever proven.

Also, Spring-Heeled jack intrigues me a lot as does the Elizabeth Short/Black Dahlia murder.

[ 03-10-2013, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Cynthia Celeste Miller from KS ]

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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
Black Dahlia, for several reasons, but I think Dr. Hodel did it.

So long from the Sunshine State!

I do too. I went into reading "The Black Dahlia Avenger" with a great deal of skepticism, but walked away with the belief that Hodel was indeed the guilty party.

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PartsUnknown77 From ND
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The Jacob Wetterling kidnapping in St. Joseph Minnesota in 1989.

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"I live in a big house, on the big side of town" -Ric Flair

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I guess the one I'm most curious about is the New Bedford murders where the victoms were mostly found along 195 in the late 80s. I grew up not far from there, which is the ony reason I remember it.
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnold_OldSchool:
quote:
Originally posted by ehrjr from L.I.,N.Y.:

Black Dahlia case is still unsolved.

http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/02/04/Black-Dahlia-case-solved-by-death-sniffing-dog/3861360014973/


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Too bad the link title doesn't accurately reflect the content of the link. If you bother actually reading it, all it says is a cadaver sniffing dog smelled SOMETHING in Dr. Hodel's basement. I still think he did it, but no, it is not 'solved'.

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So long from the Sunshine State!

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Amelia Earhart

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"The best fine producer in our tournament was a guy from Tennessee named Moondog Randy Colley. He'd spent a few years in the WWF as part of the Moondogs tag team and claimed to have invented the leather-clad face-painted gimmick of Demolition, which Vince then stole from him. I liked Demolition better when they were called the Road Warriors anyway.", Chris Jericho from A Lion's Tale

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Madison Carter from TX
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mississippi Mauler mark II:
Amelia Earhart

That's another one that hasn't really been a mystery in many, many decades, but our fascination with this stuff persists and doesn't let it go.

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Murder at the South Pole

DB Cooper

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The Mississippi Mauler mark II
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quote:
Originally posted by Madison Carter from TX:
quote:
Originally posted by The Mississippi Mauler mark II:
Amelia Earhart

That's another one that hasn't really been a mystery in many, many decades, but our fascination with this stuff persists and doesn't let it go.
When was it solved? There are tons of theories out there. Some range from simple things such as fuel miscalculation to mechanical issues. Then there are the being put to death by Japanese Soldiers or being forced to serve as one of many to portray Tokyo Rose. All we have are stories of what we think happened, not what we know has happened.

I am sure she died. I just am not sure if she crashed due to lack of fuel, mechanical trouble, or overestimating her piloting prowess. Pretty much all we have is suppostion.

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"The best fine producer in our tournament was a guy from Tennessee named Moondog Randy Colley. He'd spent a few years in the WWF as part of the Moondogs tag team and claimed to have invented the leather-clad face-painted gimmick of Demolition, which Vince then stole from him. I liked Demolition better when they were called the Road Warriors anyway.", Chris Jericho from A Lion's Tale

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brawler2711
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Alcatraz escapes.

The Wackers case that aired on Unsolved mysteries.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_and_Dorothy_Wacker

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jorjorbynks
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mississippi Mauler mark II:
quote:
Originally posted by Madison Carter from TX:
quote:
Originally posted by The Mississippi Mauler mark II:
Amelia Earhart

That's another one that hasn't really been a mystery in many, many decades, but our fascination with this stuff persists and doesn't let it go.
When was it solved? There are tons of theories out there. Some range from simple things such as fuel miscalculation to mechanical issues. Then there are the being put to death by Japanese Soldiers or being forced to serve as one of many to portray Tokyo Rose. All we have are stories of what we think happened, not what we know has happened.

I am sure she died. I just am not sure if she crashed due to lack of fuel, mechanical trouble, or overestimating her piloting prowess. Pretty much all we have is suppostion.

There is a good article at this link http://www.cracked.com/article_18718_6-famous-unsolved-mysteries-that-have-totally-been-solved.html

That explains why Earhart is not really an unsolved mystery.

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REO Speeddealer
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The Tylenol case of 1982.
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tamalie from MN
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The case of the robbers who tunneled into Los Angeles banks was featured on Unsolved Mysteries circa 1990 and always fascinated me.

Another one from that show that I can't remember all the details about concerned a gal of about 18 or so apparently being kidnapped by bikers and then forced into prostitution. Her mom was looking for her, but was constantly hitting dead ends. At one point a biker type helped her, but got beat up badly by people who wanted him to stop snooping around and then swore off any further involvement. A PI in the UK got involved with the case and may have been working the distressed mother. The arrangement came off as questionable. The key factor among people who claim to have seen the woman through the years was that she never, ever spoke. Does this case ring a bell to anyone?

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The Mississippi Mauler mark II
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quote:
Originally posted by jorjorbynks:
quote:
Originally posted by The Mississippi Mauler mark II:
quote:
Originally posted by Madison Carter from TX:
quote:
Originally posted by The Mississippi Mauler mark II:
Amelia Earhart

That's another one that hasn't really been a mystery in many, many decades, but our fascination with this stuff persists and doesn't let it go.
When was it solved? There are tons of theories out there. Some range from simple things such as fuel miscalculation to mechanical issues. Then there are the being put to death by Japanese Soldiers or being forced to serve as one of many to portray Tokyo Rose. All we have are stories of what we think happened, not what we know has happened.

I am sure she died. I just am not sure if she crashed due to lack of fuel, mechanical trouble, or overestimating her piloting prowess. Pretty much all we have is suppostion.

There is a good article at this link http://www.cracked.com/article_18718_6-famous-unsolved-mysteries-that-have-totally-been-solved.html

That explains why Earhart is not really an unsolved mystery.

Again, that is circumstantial. Understand I am not saying that they did not find her remains. I have no firmly held belief of what did or did not happen that precludes me from accepting this scenario discussed. My point is, even with that, none of us can say for certain that it was her or her crash site found can we? To believe this as 100% being her with no corroboration is foolhardy in my opinion.

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"The best fine producer in our tournament was a guy from Tennessee named Moondog Randy Colley. He'd spent a few years in the WWF as part of the Moondogs tag team and claimed to have invented the leather-clad face-painted gimmick of Demolition, which Vince then stole from him. I liked Demolition better when they were called the Road Warriors anyway.", Chris Jericho from A Lion's Tale

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Crimson Mask from FL
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quote:
Originally posted by tamalie from MN:
Another one from that show that I can't remember all the details about concerned a gal of about 18 or so apparently being kidnapped by bikers and then forced into prostitution. Her mom was looking for her, but was constantly hitting dead ends. At one point a biker type helped her, but got beat up badly by people who wanted him to stop snooping around and then swore off any further involvement. A PI in the UK got involved with the case and may have been working the distressed mother. The arrangement came off as questionable. The key factor among people who claim to have seen the woman through the years was that she never, ever spoke. Does this case ring a bell to anyone?

Amy Billig?

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So long from the Sunshine State!

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tamalie from MN
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Yes. Amy Billig was the name. Thanks. Unsolved Mysteries had a way of making even minor circumstantial evidence or speculation seem especially dangerous or suspicious, so this story came off creepy even by that show's standards.

[ 03-11-2013, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: tamalie from MN ]

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DuckSoup
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quote:
Originally posted by PartsUnknown77 From ND:
The Jacob Wetterling kidnapping in St. Joseph Minnesota in 1989.

Forgot all about Jacob Wetterling. That was such a huge story and sadly nearly 25 years later and it's a complete dead end.
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slingshotsuplex from MD via PA
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The Boy in the Box from Philly in the 50's.

Where is Jimmy Hoffa?

Amelia Earhart

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Crimson Mask from FL
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quote:
Originally posted by tamalie from MN:
Yes. Amy Billig was the name. Thanks.

Think I knew her. She was around my age and it was my part of town.

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So long from the Sunshine State!

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Portalesman
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
quote:
Originally posted by tamalie from MN:
Yes. Amy Billig was the name. Thanks.

Think I knew her. She was around my age and it was my part of town.
If so, you get connected to one too many "mystery" things.
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Crimson Mask from FL
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lol, good point.

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So long from the Sunshine State!

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Tabe
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quote:
Originally posted by Grobbit:
What doesn't add up? I haven't seen anything to make me believe anyone other than Oswald fired.

What doesn't add up? The autopsy photos and x-rays don't agree with each other. The doctors in Dallas and the ones in D.C. don't agree with each other. The doctors in Dallas identified JFK's throat wound as one of entrance. That's three big ones. That's without getting into all the evidence that the Dallas police or the FBI lied about, damaged, destroyed, lost, or flat-out made up.

A visit to Dealey Plaza would show you that the "sniper window" is just about the worst place to shoot from. It's hard to escape from, the shot is VERY difficult if you want until the motorcade has turned (as happened), and it's a long shot. From the sniper window, the limousine was going away, curving, AND descending. Meanwhile, the picket fence is close, has a very flat trajectory, and the limo is coming toward the location. Until I got to see it firsthand this past summer, I never REALLY realized just how close the picket fence was to the fatal shot location. Dealey Plaza is a lot smaller than I had pictured it.

Tabe

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Tabe
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quote:
Originally posted by 1000 Masks But No Jobs:
One topic I have always been fascinated by is the Columbine school massacre from 1999. I have picked up a couple of excellent Columbine books off Amazon in recent months, and the topic still remains very interesting to me.

There are just so many facets of the case that will probably never be known. Who else knew what was going to happen on that day (there are lots and lots of rumors and accusations regarding this)? Why do dozens and dozens of students say there were more than two shooters and specifically name others as being shooters? Did the friends/associates Klebold and Harris were seen talking with just moments before the shooting ultimately get cold feet or blend in with the student population that was fleeing the building in the early minutes of the attack?

Was it really just some amazing coincidence that the "Phrase of the Day" over the school intercom the day of the shooting was "Today is a day you do not [will not] want to be here?" Why did Harris and Klebold stop shooting and allow so many people to escape from the library by simply leaving the room to head back down to the cafeteria?

How much did local law enforcement cover up (apparently, a lot), and why did they wait so long to storm the school with gunmen in the school? Why do so many students/teachers report hearing gunshots/pipe bombs long after Harris and Klebold were said to have committed suicide according to the timeline in the official report of the masscare?

I watched a video a couple months ago that made the exact points you're talking about. There's no question that, if one digs into the witness statements even a little bit, some ugly questions come up that don't have any easy answers.

Tabe

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