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Author Topic: Gordon Scozzari's AWF in 1991 - any stories?
DaveHolmes
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I've been researching the history of this promotion and I'd like to know if anyone has stories.

Here's a summary of the promotion, as I know it:

In December 1991, a teenager named Gordon Scozzari used the $100,000 inheritance he received from his parents dying to start a promotion called the American Wrestling Federation (AWF). They ran two consecutive shows in December 1992, the first one a house show in Asbury Park, NJ, and the following night a television taping in Lowell, MA.

Scozzari wired Eddie Gilbert $5,000 to book the television taping. However, Gilbert no-showed and Dutch Mantell (who was brought in to do Color Commentary) ended up running the taping.

There was a big fiasco a few years ago where a fan named Mike Lano, who flew in from California to attend the television taping, claimed to have booked the Lowell show. This was disproven after Mike Johnson (PWInsider) released a VHS copy of the television taping. It turned out that Scozzari let Lano manage Sabu that night because Lano wouldn't stop bugging him, and Scozzari was inexperienced with handling talent.

The AWF ran one additional show in January 1992 and then folded, to my knowledge.

This gives you an idea of who was involved with the promotion:

12/16/1991 - Lowell, MA - Television Taping

Announcer: Chris Cruise
Guest Ring Announcer: Angelo Poffo

-TNT (Savio Vega) vs. Tom Burton
-Bob Orton and Barry Horowitz (with Ronnie P. Gossett) vs. Jeff Gaylord and Sunny Beach
-Stan Lane (with Jim Cornette) vs. Bill Rossi
-Paul Orndorff vs. Chris Duffy
-Sabu (with The Sheik) vs. Chris Candido
-Hercules Ayala vs. Freight Train Fulton
-Adrian Street (with Miss Linda) vs. Norman the Lunatic
-Junkyard Dog and Pez Whatley vs. The Psychopaths (Johnny Grunge and ?)
-Manny Fernandez vs. TNT (Savio Vega)
-The Beastie Boy vs. Richie Rich
-Kamala & The Botswana Beast (Giant Kamala II) vs. Nikolai Volkoff and Cousin Luke
-Sabu vs. Bill Wilcox
-AWF Heavyweight Championship: Paul Orndorff defeated Stan Lane to win the title
-Mike Sharpe, Tom Burton and Samson vs. Bill Wilcox, Freight Train Fulton and Chris Candido
-Sunny Beach vs. Rocky Raymond
-Samson vs. Harry Knuckles

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Mr4wrestle
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I was the timekeeper at the show in Asbury Park. I can't add much. Gordon seemed like a nice chap. He ran the show in a beach resort town in the dead of winter. Ed Farhat was dressed & ready to work, but the NJ State Athletic Control Board said he was too old. I saw Junkyard Dog's payoff because he showed it to me and asked me if it was good. I don't know if it was just for the Asbury Park show or if it included the Lowell show, but it was a teller's check for $1,500. Gordon's money went fast.
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MoneyDragon
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Did the tv ever see the light of day?

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free

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MaskedGoofIV
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He was on the radio beaming about having hired JYD
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DaveHolmes
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quote:
Originally posted by MoneyDragon:
Did the tv ever see the light of day?

The show never aired on television, but Mike Johnson's VHS copy of the Lowell, MA taping surfaced a few years ago on the trading circuit. It's unedited and has a time code at the bottom of the screen.

There's a guy on eBay that sells copies of it pretty much every week:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&item=170004939830&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

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DaveHolmes
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I received a copy of the Lowell, MA television taping and watched it last night.

The Candido-Sabu match was easily match of the night. Weird to see Sabu doing the same gimmick 15 years ago.

There were frequent gaps between matches as the camera panned to the entranceway and you could see the wrestlers arguing with the bookers. From what I know, several of the veterans gave Scozzari a hard time and went so far as to demand extra payments to take bumps in the ring. At one point Scozzari is left alone in the ring as ring announcer and the fans start to heckle him.

The taping ended on an odd note after Chris Cruise first announced to the live crowd there was two matches left, then quickly retracted and said "my mistake - that's the end of the show" to a chorus of boos. To make up for it, they sent out some jobbers for two quick matches to try and send the crowd home on a positive note.

Just bizarre stuff.

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flash1936
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I find it rather disturbing that after 16 years have passed since the initial two shows I did lifeless wrestling fans are still obsessing over them. For the record I ran TEN shows after those, most of which made money including sellouts in Staten Island (1,300) and Ct. (600).

It's funny how everyone autmatically believes any unchecked info given out by seld-appointed authorities (more like jackasses)such as Meltzer, Kellar & John "owes more money than god " Arezzi. Quite simply I was NOT a teenager when I ran my 1st two shows I was 21 (DOB: 06-26-70) , the money did not come from any inheritance, but rather my share of profits from an Emerson electric merger with a texas electronics group. The Asbury show (475 paid) was on 12/14/91, and Lowell 12/16/91 (1,061 in a 3,300 seater) - which was on a monday night with two weeks to promote it due to an idiot named Jim Quinlan assuring everyone than he had a local high school in Billerica booked. Not knowing the area well, and not wanting to be another scumbag promoter I called the Lowell Me. Auditorium and made the best of the situation.
As far as Mr. Gilbert was concerned yes I did send him $500 and a r/t ticket, he decided to no-show, so in his place douing the booking was the late great Pez Whatley. Pez was a class act who worked and handled the backstage while asking for no extra money. He was a close friend of mine for years after these events, and I still miss him to this day.

What Mike Johnson (of PWInsider) said is true, and he doesn't deserve all the backlash he gets on the internet, he is a genuine person who truly loves the business he covers. Mike Lano on the other hand is a basket case, he flew himself from S.F. to Asbury Park, introduced himself to me and asked to take photo's at ringside for a "Japanese" mag. When we reached Lowell Pez and I -eddie g. had to deal with the building, merchandice, and the booking of the show. During all of this Lano STOLE Manny Fernandez' coat and ran out to ring side with Sabu & Sheik (If you have the tape you will see him taking pics in previous bouts!), Nikita & Bob Orton had to physically resrain Manny from attacking Lano for this stunt.

Now as far as Eddie Gilbert being attacked by Jeff Gaylord because I paid him off to do so...
the only reason I ended up conected to their fight (which was really over Eddie not using Jeff when Jeff was late to four shows in a row) is the fact that Jeff who I and Savio Vega (Juan Rivera) fired when we were taping extra footage in P.R. for wrestling under the influence of pot)was Jeff's decision to wear an AWF T-shirt when he did it.

Junkyard Dog's pay the one of you claims to have seen was for both nights plus airfare since he was stranded in the area due to Afa cancelling a show at the last minute. No one asked me for "bump" money, the only thing anyone might have overheard was Nikolai saying he had hurt his back recently, and can we go easy on him.
What amazed me at the time was how villified I was whenthe fact remained that all of the boys got exactly what they were promised unlike other contemporaries such as Herb Abrams, John Arezzi, Joel Goodhart etc. After all was said and done (including tv production cameras) both shows ran me roughly $35,000 - not all of which was losses.

I suppose my question to all of you is why I would even occur to you after all these years?
I haven't been active in wrestling since the summer of 2000 when I did some work for an old friend/Welsh promoter Orig Williams. For the record I left the U.S. in 2001, and am living in a small seaside town in England near my family where I own a pub/restraunt combo that does quite well. -Gordon Peter Scozzari

By the way -The tapings did air in two places:
1) AWF Puerto Rico - Juan Rivera's group at the time, you will recognize the banners.
2) As part of Mario Savoldi's IWCCW show on the defunct Sportschannel N.Y.

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Take everything you read online with a grain of salt, as 99% of the time the so-called experts "Meltzer/Kellar" never check their sources, and just print whatever bs story with an agenda tells them.

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manof1000holds
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This is a wrestling board that deals with wrestling history, so it's not that people are obsessing over you, but rather trying to satiate their curiosity about pro qrestling history.

Two questions-was it true that you used inheritance money to fund this folly? And, is it true Medusa bitchslapped you as payback for the Gaylord thing?

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CrazyMark123
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Gordon -

Are the title lineages for your AWF's Heavyweight Title correct at this site?:

http://www.solie.org/titlehistories/htawf2.html

If not, could you please post the correct title information.

Also, did you introduce any other AWF belts after the TV taping?

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The Outlaw J.D. McKay (better?,,,)
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I just think it's great that Gordon responded and answered these points.

I have always wondered what his side of ths story was. If I recall correctly, Eddie said he no-showed because he (like others) was not too certain of how good the money was, but afterwards he found it out that Gordon was on the up and up.

I concur that it is a quirky piece of history of the business in its modern era.

j.d. out-

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"Marriage is the one normal thing that Flair tries to do, but he sucks at it" - Nickla Roberts, in a SLAM Wrestling article. I add, "He ain't alone."

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1481967783&ref=tn_tnmn

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flash1936
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As I stated clearly in my previous post I did not use inheritance money to fund the AWF, but rather money earned from having stock in Emerson electronics at time when they made a very profitable merger. Both of my parents were librarians, the was no "HUGE" inheritance. Some really sickening things were printed at the time claiming my parents died in a car accident (Wrestling Chatterbox among others) which while certainly nobodies business was completely false, as they died a year apart from two different forms of cancer. Why low-life "wrestling journalists" (I am not refering to you as I don't know who you are) feel they have to make-up such stories is beyond me. For the record from start to finish I was never once contacted by any of them to get the truth. Most of the lies that even went as far as me blowing $22 million on those shows!? originated from the mouths of Arezzi, Fatkropoulos (of the Chatterbox - who even tried to get wrestlers to jack-up their prices to work for me i.e. Steve Williams, & Dan Spivey who I declined to use) and the biggest two-faced piece of **** I've ever met Jim Cornette. In calling the events a folly, I highly doubt you would be even remotely capable of pulling of those shows under the conditions I had to contend with such as last minute building changes when people simply were to rapped up in being big fans (Quinlan) to do their jobs. Or for another example which I have refrained from making public: the pathetic Rick (Sunny ***** /Beach) Allen who had heat with every local wrestler you could dream of basically forcing me to look elsewhere for talent. A mistake that from Jan.92 on (Main Event: Orndorff & Beach v. KAMALA & BOTSWANA BEAST, 4 fly-ins on the whole show including SABU, and 1,300 paid.)I never repeated, but hey all internet fans want to do is hear about things that went wrong, any thing that does well gets ignored.

In regards to you second question, no I was never attacked for an assault that a drugged-out, fired (Savio and I told him he would never work for us again after he wrestled in a pot induced stupor missing every spot) and disgruntled loser perpetrated on Mr. Gilbert.
Quite simply Jeff attacked Eddie because Eddie canceled him off four show in a row that Jef showed up several hours late to. He unfortunately just being back from P.R. was wearing an awf t-shirt when he commited the assault. I have heard that she assaulted him which to be honest is fine by me.

Orndorff was the only title holder, however I stoped using him after the third show in January of 1992. We did plan to put the belt on Stan Lane, however a personnel tragedy early in 1992 took away all my interest in promoting. As far as the tag team titles the last champions where Solid Gold (Jose Estrada Sr. & Jr.) who defeated Beach and Gaylord in Caguas, Puerto Rico. Savio revived them briefly giving them to the Bad Boys (Bruno Sassi & Dan Ackerman)who were good and underated in my opinion. The names of the belts was then slightly altered to America's Wrestling Federation. In addition to Savio, the money behind the Puerto Rican version and part of my funding for the U.S. shows came from Gloria Uribe. Things fell apart when I got her a timeslot on WXTV-NY 41 which she signed a contract accepting, then proceed to default on the $2,500 per week payments to the station.

I don't mean to come of hostile, bitter, etc. but to be honest some of the lies still being said would get on anyones nerves. That said I would be more than happy to have a normal conversation about all of my involvement in wrestling with anyone on here. Living in England I do still have friends in and around the business, and on occasion attend the local WAW shows put on by Ricky Knight & his wife Julia mainly to see the UK Pitbulls easily the largest and best tag in Europe, in addition to being two of the nicest people you'll ever meet.
Gordon.

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Take everything you read online with a grain of salt, as 99% of the time the so-called experts "Meltzer/Kellar" never check their sources, and just print whatever bs story with an agenda tells them.

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plmathfoto
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Very very interesting. You had me until you said Lano was a basket case, totally unbelievable lolol.

[Big Grin]

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Mark from WA
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Bitter ?

Oh....a tad.

[Big Grin]

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I've been loved and put aside
I've been crushed by the tumbling tide

And my soul has been... psychedelicized

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Idol I
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Why did you stop using Orndorff?

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http://TheHistoryofWWE.com/

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The Coach
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Mike Lano? Is this the same guy who ran under the NWF banner based out of NJ? He would run "Legends" cards. I have worked for this guy!!! Always paid!!!

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"I've been traveling throughout; exactly where, I don't know." - Ron Slinker

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tamalie from MN
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You might be thinking of someone else. Mike Lano is/was a dentist and is from the Bay Area in California. He's been around the business in one way or another for ages, taking photos, doing radio shows, having a website at one time, and so on. He's a little eccentric to put it mildly and has both people who like him and who don't like him at all. I don't think he ever promoted in the Northeast though.
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Ken Viewer
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quote:
Originally posted by tamalie:
You might be thinking of someone else. Mike Lano is/was a dentist and is from the Bay Area in California. He's been around the business in one way or another for ages, taking photos, doing radio shows, having a website at one time, and so on. He's a little eccentric to put it mildly and has both people who like him and who don't like him at all. I don't think he ever promoted in the Northeast though.

Whatever folks think of Dr. Mike, he had (hope he still has) a fun half-hour weekly TV show he self-syndicated to public-access cable channels. I was a total fan of that show when it was telecast in New York City on Slime Warner. At the time, for me there wasn't any other place I knew of that broke Kayfabe in a regular, respectful way. Didn't then know about the newsletters.

Ken

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Mark from WA
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quote:
Originally posted by tamalie:
You might be thinking of someone else. Mike Lano is/was a dentist and is from the Bay Area in California. He's been around the business in one way or another for ages, taking photos, doing radio shows, having a website at one time, and so on. He's a little eccentric to put it mildly and has both people who like him and who don't like him at all. I don't think he ever promoted in the Northeast though.

I've heard that he gave free dental care to any pro wrestlers.

--------------------
I've been loved and put aside
I've been crushed by the tumbling tide

And my soul has been... psychedelicized

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Dark Monarch from NC
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark from WA:
quote:
Originally posted by tamalie:
You might be thinking of someone else. Mike Lano is/was a dentist and is from the Bay Area in California. He's been around the business in one way or another for ages, taking photos, doing radio shows, having a website at one time, and so on. He's a little eccentric to put it mildly and has both people who like him and who don't like him at all. I don't think he ever promoted in the Northeast though.

I've heard that he gave free dental care to any pro wrestlers.
Well, bless his heart...

BTW, the dude posting here said he would answer questions, so I have one...

Why the heat with Jim Cornette?

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Been up and down since I turned seventeen
I've been on top and it seems I've lost my dreams
But I got 'em back, I'm feeling better every day
So tell all those pencil pushers they better get out of my way...

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Madison Carter from TX
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All of this begs the question, though: How did everyone get all the facts wrong all of this time?

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Twitter: @madisoncarter76

Freakin' Awesome Network

"What the hell's worth doing in this world if it doesn't have a price to pay?" - Bob Morgan

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Originally posted by brawler2711:
Virgil has worked with all the greats



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flash1936
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quote:
Originally posted by Madison Carter:
All of this begs the question, though: How did everyone get all the facts wrong all of this time?

It's quite simple Meltzer, Kellar, Fatkropoulos etc. NEVER gave me the chance to respond to anything, and in the case of Kellar he and Bruce Mitchell kept reprinting the same lies over and over again. So like sheep most "smart" fans believed it. Plus I admit having been out of the business for a long time I haven't been keeping up with anything said about me - quite franjly I have never felt I was significant enough to merit the attention.

I stoped using Orndorff after the Jan. 25th 1992 show when he asked to take the belt home with him to allegedly show Hogan who he was "filming a commercial" with. I said no,not wanting to risk losing it, and Sonny ***** behind my back at the airport handed it to Paul. I haven't seen it since despite legal letters at the time. To head off questions about the tag belts I sold both in 1996 to Andre Baker of Hammerlock wrestling in England for a nice profit, one of which used to and might still be featured on NWA Hammerlocks home page ( a pic taken by me of Andre with a belt in Central Park).

The heat with Cornette stems from the fact that I paid him exactly what we agreed to, put him in a nice hotel, and then got promptly slammed on a Smokkey Mtn. Fan Weekend video. If I had been like most indy promoters and shorted him on pay, canceled him without warning maybe I'd have seen in a better light!?

The video that some of you have, I gave to Mike Johnson (years ago we were friends). It is close to what you might see if you took a tape out of a WWE, ECW, TNA camera before any editing was done thus the time code on the screen.

As for the person that called me bitter, I beg to differ. I do not regret things not working out for me in wrestling, my only problem was with being villified without a chance to defend myself.

Thanks for giving me that opportunity here.

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Take everything you read online with a grain of salt, as 99% of the time the so-called experts "Meltzer/Kellar" never check their sources, and just print whatever bs story with an agenda tells them.

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Wrestling Perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by flash1936:
quote:
Originally posted by Madison Carter:
All of this begs the question, though: How did everyone get all the facts wrong all of this time?

It's quite simple Meltzer, Kellar, Fatkropoulos etc. NEVER gave me the chance to respond to anything
Are you saying that you wrote a letter to Meltzer, Keller, and/or Makropoulos that rebutted what was published in their newsletters and they never printed your letter?

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Fake ... Working Through Wrestling's Past

Check Out Our Book: Olympic Television: Broadcasting The Biggest Show On Earth

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flash1936
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrestling Perspective:
quote:
Originally posted by flash1936:
quote:
Originally posted by Madison Carter:
All of this begs the question, though: How did everyone get all the facts wrong all of this time?

It's quite simple Meltzer, Kellar, Fatkropoulos etc. NEVER gave me the chance to respond to anything
Are you saying that you wrote a letter to Meltzer, Keller, and/or Makropoulos that rebutted what was published in their newsletters and they never printed your letter?
Numerous phone calls made to Meltzer, all he would do is print what his buddies told him, calls and letters to the other two were also ignored. By the way does your handle refer to the newsletter you do? If so then you can consult Evan Ginzburg of Wrestling Then and Now he will back up every word.

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Take everything you read online with a grain of salt, as 99% of the time the so-called experts "Meltzer/Kellar" never check their sources, and just print whatever bs story with an agenda tells them.

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Madison Carter from TX
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K, Gordon, 'nother question: May have missed discussion about it in all these posts, but any chance of releasing your shows to DVD?

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Twitter: @madisoncarter76

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"What the hell's worth doing in this world if it doesn't have a price to pay?" - Bob Morgan

quote:
Originally posted by brawler2711:
Virgil has worked with all the greats



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CrazyMark123
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Gordon - did you ever have a trademark on the name "American Wrestling Federation"?

If so, did you give Paul Alperstein permission to use the name from 1994-1996 when he was running his version of the AWF on national television?

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Wrestling Perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by CrazyMark123:
Gordon - did you ever have a trademark on the name "American Wrestling Federation"?

There's no record of him trademarking it at the US Trademark office.

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Fake ... Working Through Wrestling's Past

Check Out Our Book: Olympic Television: Broadcasting The Biggest Show On Earth

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Pumpkin Head
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"Whatever folks think of Dr. Mike, he had (hope he still has) a fun half-hour weekly TV show he self-syndicated to public-access cable channels. I was a total fan of that show when it was telecast in New York City on Slime Warner. At the time, for me there wasn't any other place I knew of that broke Kayfabe in a regular, respectful way. Didn't then know about the newsletters"

Pretty sure there isn't a shortage of Mike Lano opinions out there.

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aarondex
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So we're just going to assume the guy who ran a wrestling promotion at 21, and quit despite apparently not running out of money, who thinks the Torch, Observer, and Jim Cornette are out to smear him for apparently no reason, and who shows up with a username flash9384 is telling the whole truth?

Really? Is that your story?

I'm curious. Why is Meltzer out to tarnish you? Any theories? Threatening his power?

In all seriousness, congrats on having that kind of cash at 21. I'm 21 and I barely have money for my next bag.

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flash1936
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quote:
Originally posted by aarondex:
So we're just going to assume the guy who ran a wrestling promotion at 21, and quit despite apparently not running out of money, who thinks the Torch, Observer, and Jim Cornette are out to smear him for apparently no reason, and who shows up with a username flash9384 is telling the whole truth?

Really? Is that your story?

I'm curious. Why is Meltzer out to tarnish you? Any theories? Threatening his power?

In all seriousness, congrats on having that kind of cash at 21. I'm 21 and I barely have money for my next bag.

You being 21 obviously have no idea what you are talking about or how things worked at that time. Heck, Meltzer still operates that way, he has his sources and print whatever they say word for word. It's more indifference on Meltzer's part meaning he couldn't be bothered to even try to get the truth. John Arezzi who REFUSED to do commentary that he was hired by me to do while still wanting to get paid for I guess showing up? was one of the sources Meltzer used. I quit promoting because of the death of someone very close to me - my fiancee. When you get older you will hopefully learn there are many things more important than promoting wrestling. Is your genius theory that I should have promoted down to my last dollar, being the great businessman you must be? Georgiann Fatkropolis was in league with Herb Abrams (your idea of what a promoter should be? i.e. go broke, then turn up dead with coke and hookers in a hotel room? Do ppv's without ever doing a profitable show?) she would ask me who I was using, then tell Herb who offered several wrestlers money just to no show. Orndorff and JYD took his money and worked for me too.

You seem to miss the point of everything I have siad in this thread, and if you go back and read any of those publications you will see NOTHING attributed to me, simply rumors and bs that have been repeated so many times people started to believe them.

To answer other peoples questions no I did not trademark the AWF name, I simply incorporated it at the time.

DVD isn't a bad idea, I'll have to look into it. I've only kept a few of my shows so it might just amount to 2-3 dvds.

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Take everything you read online with a grain of salt, as 99% of the time the so-called experts "Meltzer/Kellar" never check their sources, and just print whatever bs story with an agenda tells them.

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Bud316 Live from Robarts Arena
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quote:
Originally posted by flash1936:
quote:
Originally posted by aarondex:
So we're just going to assume the guy who ran a wrestling promotion at 21, and quit despite apparently not running out of money, who thinks the Torch, Observer, and Jim Cornette are out to smear him for apparently no reason, and who shows up with a username flash9384 is telling the whole truth?

Really? Is that your story?

I'm curious. Why is Meltzer out to tarnish you? Any theories? Threatening his power?

In all seriousness, congrats on having that kind of cash at 21. I'm 21 and I barely have money for my next bag.

You being 21 obviously have no idea what you are talking about or how things worked at that time. Heck, Meltzer still operates that way, he has his sources and print whatever they say word for word. It's more indifference on Meltzer's part meaning he couldn't be bothered to even try to get the truth. John Arezzi who REFUSED to do commentary that he was hired by me to do while still wanting to get paid for I guess showing up? was one of the sources Meltzer used. I quit promoting because of the death of someone very close to me - my fiancee. When you get older you will hopefully learn there are many things more important than promoting wrestling. Is your genius theory that I should have promoted down to my last dollar, being the great businessman you must be? Georgiann Fatkropolis was in league with Herb Abrams (your idea of what a promoter should be? i.e. go broke, then turn up dead with coke and hookers in a hotel room? Do ppv's without ever doing a profitable show?) she would ask me who I was using, then tell Herb who offered several wrestlers money just to no show. Orndorff and JYD took his money and worked for me too.

You seem to miss the point of everything I have siad in this thread, and if you go back and read any of those publications you will see NOTHING attributed to me, simply rumors and bs that have been repeated so many times people started to believe them.

To answer other peoples questions no I did not trademark the AWF name, I simply incorporated it at the time.

DVD isn't a bad idea, I'll have to look into it. I've only kept a few of my shows so it might just amount to 2-3 dvds.

Flash, first you must understand that most people think Meltzer is the second coming of Christ and there is no possible way he could lie or ever cover something up..And I have to ask Mr4wrestle, you said in your post "I saw Junkyard Dog's payoff because he showed it to me and asked me if it was good." Why would a wrestler that has been wrestling maybe 15 years by this time ask the timekeeper if his payoff was any good, I would think JYD has been on the road enough to know if his payoff was good or not.. just curious..

Bud

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Mr4wrestle
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Hi Bud .... I see my post was not clear. JYD did not show me his check to question the payoff amount. Then, and now, wrestlers on independent shows like to be paid in cash. I was a friend of JYD and he knew I worked with the Federal Reserve. He showed me the check so I could verify that it was indeed a good check. It was, of course. At the time, what I knew of Gordon was this ... Gordon was a good guy who loved wrestling and wanted to give a shot at promoting. Then, same as now, there were plenty of sharks ready to take advantage.

[ 01-24-2007, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Mr4wrestle ]

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aarondex
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I don't think Meltzer is the second coming. I do think it's suspect that he would make all of this up in an effort to discredit this start-up, and I find it doubtful that Keller and Cornette would also just be out to get this guy without some sort of reason. Maybe they are, that's fine. I'm just skeptical.

I'm editing this because I don't think the preceding paragraph was clear enough. I do think those three would make up, and sabotage, certain people in the wrestling world. I'm saying that I don't think your promotion was a big enough threat to anyone that they would go to the trouble of doing so. And yeah, again, I could be wrong because all three could be tremendous jerks and just hate young people and their dreams. I don't know.

Don't put words in my mouth, either. I think promoting wrestling is a dumb business move. I think getting involved with wrestling is a dumb business move for most people. So no, I don't think Herb Adams is some sort of ideal promoter because I'd hazard a guess that most of the people who run a wrestling promotion are some variation of sleazy. But it seems that someone with the drive and determination to start a wrestling company at age 21 wouldn't be easily turned off to it and give up while they were making money. Maybe you did, I'm just skeptical.

And yeah, I'm 21. Give me some old man advice. I'd love to hear it. I obviously take myself very seriously, since I just admitted to the fact I barely make enough money to support going to bars and smoking pot.

[ 01-24-2007, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: aarondex ]

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Sonny_Crockett
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quote:
Originally posted by aarondex:
I don't think Meltzer is the second coming. I do think it's suspect that he would make all of this up in an effort to discredit this start-up, and I find it doubtful that Keller and Cornette would also just be out to get this guy without some sort of reason. Maybe they are, that's fine. I'm just skeptical.

I'm editing this because I don't think the preceding paragraph was clear enough. I do think those three would make up, and sabotage, certain people in the wrestling world. I'm saying that I don't think your promotion was a big enough threat to anyone that they would go to the trouble of doing so. And yeah, again, I could be wrong because all three could be tremendous jerks and just hate young people and their dreams. I don't know.

Don't put words in my mouth, either. I think promoting wrestling is a dumb business move. I think getting involved with wrestling is a dumb business move for most people. So no, I don't think Herb Adams is some sort of ideal promoter because I'd hazard a guess that most of the people who run a wrestling promotion are some variation of sleazy. But it seems that someone with the drive and determination to start a wrestling company at age 21 wouldn't be easily turned off to it and give up while they were making money. Maybe you did, I'm just skeptical.

And yeah, I'm 21. Give me some old man advice. I'd love to hear it. I obviously take myself very seriously, since I just admitted to the fact I barely make enough money to support going to bars and smoking pot.

I don't think the guy is implying Meltzer made anything up..he's just saying Meltzer, listening to what may have been not so good sources...reported a story, in Flash's opinion, erroneously..and Flash tried to give Meltzer his side many times...but, according to him..Dave never listened.
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Pumpkin Head
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I find this interesting & I was at the Lowell show with some friends & enjoyed it!

I do think I'd like to hear from Meltzer on this & typical practices on how he pieces stories for The Observer. Until we hear from him or Wade, it's still Gordon vs "the sheets"

So, how about it Dave?

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Mark from WA
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Bump.

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I've been loved and put aside
I've been crushed by the tumbling tide

And my soul has been... psychedelicized

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Mark from WA
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quote:
Originally posted by Pumpkin Head:
I find this interesting & I was at the Lowell show with some friends & enjoyed it!

I do think I'd like to hear from Meltzer on this & typical practices on how he pieces stories for The Observer. Until we hear from him or Wade, it's still Gordon vs "the sheets"

So, how about it Dave?

Well, Dave is online now so let's see how it goes.

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I've been loved and put aside
I've been crushed by the tumbling tide

And my soul has been... psychedelicized

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Mark from WA
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In December 1991, a teenager named Gordon Scozzari used the $100,000 inheritance he received from his parents dying to start a promotion called the American Wrestling Federation (AWF). They ran two consecutive shows in December 1992, the first one a house show in Asbury Park, NJ, and the following night a television taping in Lowell, MA.

*************************************

OK, THIS sounds like something printed in the Weekly World News.

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I've been loved and put aside
I've been crushed by the tumbling tide

And my soul has been... psychedelicized

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Mark from WA
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OK....I guess this goes into the "not getting responded to by the right people" file of doom.

So...I can't really blame Gordon here. The chance was there but they (whomever - cough) didn't give enough of a **** .

EDIT:

There has to be something to this - Dave was online, HAD to have seen this but didn't post jack about it.

If Gordon was wrong or making stuff up, you'd think Dave would've said something.

[ 01-25-2007, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: Mark from WA ]

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I've been loved and put aside
I've been crushed by the tumbling tide

And my soul has been... psychedelicized

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aarondex
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Very valid point. And I am willing to concede there could be something to this.
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Pumpkin Head
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He's aware of it,(hell I sent him an email)

Maybe he's thinking about how he wants to respond, who knows?

Maybe he doesn't want a public battle & considers being quiet taking the "high road"

I do hope he replies though, there's a few holes in this story. I'd be interested in how he puts together any issue of the Observer.

Although I'm sure he's busy.

Dave Meltzer, we await our response.

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