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Author Topic: So when do I owe royalties?
Wrestling Perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by stone2k:
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Berger1:
I'm borderline ignorant on this subject, so please forgive me if the question is irrelevant or just plain dim...

Where do the street buskers stand in the context of using other performer's material? We see these musicians in large malls and other public places, singing and playing guitars, violins and various other instruments. Of course, they're almost always performing well-known tunes, usually with very few changes to the original arrangements. And we can't leave out the fact that these folks inevitably collect spare change from a (hopefully) appreciative audience. That means they're getting paid, however informally.

Technically, it seems to me that each and every one of these entertainers is in violation of the ASCAP/BMI rules, if what I'm reading is accurate. Yet, it also appears that these folks are not terribly concerned in the least about being "dinged." Further, I'm sure if that was the case, we'd be seeing a lot less of them than we do.

So, my question is this: does ASCAP/BMI give these performers a pass or are they somehow exempt from the rules that apply to the bars, karaoke lounges, etc.?

I am sure that alot of it depends on the city...when I was in NOLA the street muscians were not licensed, and flew under the radar, but up here in Cambridge, MA the street performers must get a permit through the city, and I am sure that the city must kick back some to the agencies involved in the music business.
Doubt it.

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Fake ... Working Through Wrestling's Past

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WillWrestle4Food
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You owe royalties to me, right now. Pay up or else.
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flowmotion
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On topic question: Wrestling promotions in the early 80s used all those rock songs without paying a dime in royalties, right?
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Wrestling Perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by flowmotion:
On topic question: Wrestling promotions in the early 80s used all those rock songs without paying a dime in royalties, right?

The problem there was, while the arena had licenses to use the music, the promotions never secured mechanical rights to put the songs on videotape ...

Thus, they started using in house and production library music.

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chihuahua
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
If the intent is commercial and evasive as you describe, and not parody per se, then it's infringement pure and simple. Royalties are due, possibly punitive damages also, plus the owner of the original owns the altered version. Has to be proven though, owner of the original has to take legal action, so on so forth. If it's just some altered lyrics and the melody is the same, proof is pretty easy. If it's something more subtle, like say WCW's DDP Teen Spirit ripoff, probably not. You can't copyright a chord progression.

Speaking of which, is this not how guys like Jim Johnston make their living? Do not know if he penned Razor Ramon's theme, but it is just as bad a ripoff as DDP's was...

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Wrestling Perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by chihuahua:
quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
If the intent is commercial and evasive as you describe, and not parody per se, then it's infringement pure and simple. Royalties are due, possibly punitive damages also, plus the owner of the original owns the altered version. Has to be proven though, owner of the original has to take legal action, so on so forth. If it's just some altered lyrics and the melody is the same, proof is pretty easy. If it's something more subtle, like say WCW's DDP Teen Spirit ripoff, probably not. You can't copyright a chord progression.

Speaking of which, is this not how guys like Jim Johnston make their living? Do not know if he penned Razor Ramon's theme, but it is just as bad a ripoff as DDP's was...
There is a business of writing ripoffs for production purposes/commercials. NPR did an interesting piece on it a few years back.

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Wolverine
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Ok, one more question. On the WKRP dvd, among the many cuts to the episodes, they had to alter a scene in which people are naming actual songs to changing them to fake song titles. Does this mean songtitles are copyrighted as well? I mean, if i had a character in a movie say "my favorite song is you cant always get what you want by the rolling stones" and didnt play the song or quote any lyrics, would i still have to pay royalties?
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Crimson Mask I
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Okay, go get an Advil and some water. I'll wait.

...

Okay. No. Titles cannot be copyrighted.

What you're dealing with here is...

... TRADEMARK.

Do I hear a *glub*... ?

... thought so. [Big Grin]

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Rev Bucky from S.OR
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask I:
Okay, go get an Advil and some water. I'll wait.

...

Okay. No. Titles cannot be copyrighted.

What you're dealing with here is...

... TRADEMARK.

Do I hear a *glub*... ?

... thought so. [Big Grin]

Wait a minute, what's the difference?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Sorry Mask, being evil! Please don't ban me for adding to your eternal headache!!

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John Waters said:"if everyone likes your art,its not art"

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Wrestling Perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolverine:
Ok, one more question. On the WKRP dvd, among the many cuts to the episodes, they had to alter a scene in which people are naming actual songs to changing them to fake song titles.

Wait, wait, wait.

Do you mean the changed the actual songs they played?

Or they just changed the titles of songs they mention in the show?

The former would be the result of royalities for the DVD.

The later, well, there is no good reason to do it in the later case.

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Fake ... Working Through Wrestling's Past

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Crimson Mask I
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Good point. Did they actually play ANY of the songs?
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The Blue Meanie
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here's a news article I just found today that applies to what's been talked about:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=7 1805

VAN HALEN, LED ZEPPELIN Settle Cover Band Lawsuit - May 3, 2007
Steve Lynn of Glenwood Springs, Colorado's Post Independent reports that a former local club owner reached a $40,000 settlement Wednesday with several famous musicians β€” including Van Halen Music Company and LED ZEPPELIN's Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones and Patricia Bonham β€” who sued him for allowing cover bands to play their songs at 8150.

Steven Kovacik, former owner of 8150, called the settlement unfair.

"I don't think it's fair for one show, are you crazy?" Kovacik said.

Van Halen Music Company and the ZEPPELIN members were all named as plaintiffs in a lawsuit filed Feb. 16 that contended Kovacik allowed public performances of their songs at 8150. The lawsuit, which was filed in U.S. District Court in Colorado, named Kovacik as a defendant.

Bands like LEZ ZEPPELIN, an all-female LED ZEPPELIN cover band who played 8150 Jan. 15, 2006, should be held responsible for copyright infringement, Kovacik said.

"The band is touring, making money off of LED ZEPPELIN's music," he said. "Why should I be the one responsible to pay when LEZ ZEPPELIN is the one playing the music?"

That's not how the law works, said Alan Stewart, manager for LEZ ZEPPELIN.

If stores or concert venues publicly play songs registered with the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers β€” even on a stereo β€” they have to pay a licensing fee, he said.

Read more at Post Independemt

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Crimson Mask I
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Club owners ain't changed none. They still think we're back on the plantation and they're Massa. Same **** different millenium.
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mr. disco
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I wonder how much enforcement is done through Harry Fox Agency when local bands put cover songs on their CD's.

I know in the two cases when bands I've been in recorded cover songs on CD's we sold, we purchased the correct licenses and listed the composer/publisher on the jacket per requirement. (license was for under 1000 copies, so it's only about $75 per song). However, a local band I know, who has about 5 CD's out, put out one last CD before breaking up, and it was about 50% covers - I never found out if they did it "the right way" but if I recall, they didn't have the correct listings per HFA requirement on the insert.

Here's another one. When one of the bands I was in broke up, for our farewell show, we put together a CD of all the material we never released, as well as some live radio performances, and some old home recordings. It included 2-3 covers, and we did not pay for them. On the flip side, we also did not sell the CD - we gave it away to people who came to the farewell show - about 400 people total. Because we didn't profit from it, could HFA come after us (not likely of course, but still.

As for websites, that's a different, or added license through HFA. Before we got on iTunes, we had lo-fi versions of our songs on our website, but we did NOT have the one cover song from the first CD, as we did not purchase the right to distribute electronically.

Interestingly enough, we contacted the band (The V-Roys) whose song we covered. They thought it was pretty cool that anyone would cover their material.

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"Just because you ain't paranoid don't mean they ain't out to get you." - Steve Earle

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mr. disco
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Here's another thing I've always been curious about - musicians unions.

I've been in a few bars, usually really old-style places, like a local polka bar, where there are signs up about union musicians. Obviously the local bar band is not in a union. Is this just some throwback to days of old, or do such things still exist, and to what extent?

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"Just because you ain't paranoid don't mean they ain't out to get you." - Steve Earle

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Crimson Mask I
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On the question of covers, yeah, my experience too is that unless you sell a buncha units and get noticed, you fly under the radar.

On unions, the American Federation of Musicians still exists. But it's way down. Very few union gigs. Why would there be? Hardly anybody uses live music anymore anyway, and if they do, bands are so desperate they'll PAY to play. The owners have no trouble hiring musicians for little or no money, so why would they run their joints union? They're right. We ARE still back on the plantation.

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Crimson Mask I
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Just for drill, also, it runs the opposite of SAG, as far as joining it. With SAG you have to get a union gig to qualify, you can't just join.

AFM you HAVE to just join, you can't accept a union gig without already being a member. You also---well I don't know if this is still true, but when I first joined, I had to take an oath that I wasn't a Communist.

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mr. disco
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I checked their site. Nothing about communism...

In fairness though, what percentage of musicians are doing it for a living? Probably not a lot - for most it's a weekend hobby at best, unless you're doing studio work.

A friend of mine just got his doctorate in classical guitar, and has no idea what he wants to do. He's trying to get a professorship, but it's not going well - not a lot of opportunities.

That all said, I hate the notion of "pay to play" and I'm so glad I don't live in a market where that's the norm (yet).

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"Just because you ain't paranoid don't mean they ain't out to get you." - Steve Earle

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Wrestling Perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by mr. disco:
I checked their site. Nothing about communism...

In fairness though, what percentage of musicians are doing it for a living? Probably not a lot - for most it's a weekend hobby at best, unless you're doing studio work.

The problem is, those people who just do it for kicks drive down the rates for the professionals ...

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Wrestling Perspective
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If you're a studio musicians or symphony musicians you're union. Ditto any major touring act.

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Crimson Mask I
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Right. Upper 1% only, basically.
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Joel Kolsrud
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I can personally vouch for the topic of this thread.

I used to work for a rock and roll club in Clinton, Iowa called The Pig Pen, from 1994-2002. It was in the eastern-most part of the state, bordering the Mississippi River to Illinois. The population is just under 30,000.

The Pig Pen could hold around 500 or so, but was like many other clubs at the time, housing local bands playing covers, booking up-and-comers or those long past their prime.

IIRC, we had to pay BMI a certain amount per month for being the type of club we were. I worked in the office, but there were never any records kept of what songs were played and by whom. I'm unfamiliar to the extent that I would have no idea if that was required. I can say we did not do that to any degree.

As for enforcement, well, if our payment was not made, they were quick to get a court order to have law enforcement come and collect what was owed.

I did everything in the office, except for the booking of acts and handling of the money (paying bills, talent, etc.).

One night, we had a show featuring three bands (The Pimps, Nash and someone else I cannot remember that one of the other bands brought with them).

All of the sudden, the cops show up, court order in hand.....and we're talking 10:30 in the evening.....issued by BMI for lack of payment. Here, the club owner (HE handled these things, lol), had failed to pay BMI and, well, BMI wanted their money.

That night we had 100-200 people (a good crowd at the time). They took everything from the cash drawer, plus we had to prove there was no other cash anywhere else in the building (which there was not, btw).

To say this was a major embarrassment is a huge understatement.

From what I was told, had the cops wanted to, they could have taken any customer money that was laying on the bar. They did not, however.

I think BMI was owed something like $1500. They maybe got 1/3 of that.

I ended up paying the headliner out of my own pocket.

So, yeah, they'll come after you if you're not playing fair.

[ 05-06-2007, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Joel Kolsrud ]

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Crimson Mask I
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About AFM, when I joined, in addition to the Communist thing, I also had to take an oath---well lemme go chronological. I get hired for this steady gig and not till somewhere toward the end of the first night does anybody mention it's union or discover that at the moment, I'm not. So the next day I gotta go down the Miami local and join up, and I gotta NOT tell them that I'm already on a gig, that was the other oath. So I go, they used to own this whole building on 125th St. in North Miami (there is now only one local covering all of South Florida, which should give you an idea of the shrinkage I was talking about). So I go, middle of the day, there's all these old club date (weddings etc.) guys hanging around, the TV is on, 'Name That Tune' is on, which is hilarious because while I could do better on the show than any of the contestants, all these guys sitting around can name every tune just off the clue, they don't even need to hear one note. So anyway I fill out the forms, take the oaths (hand in the air and the whole ****) and that's that.

[ 05-06-2007, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Crimson Mask I ]

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tamalie from MN
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quote:
Originally posted by half man half cookie:
If you don't get clearance when you record it can cost you big. The Verve had a huge hit with Bittersweet Symphony years back but ended up paying almost all profits to the Rolling Stones because the central melody hook which was repeated throughout, 6 beats two times was copied off them. Apparently the reason Hendrix doesn't appear much in films, cover songs, samples, ads etc is that the estate charges a fortune to use his stuff.

The song in question was "The Last Time", but it was not the famous Stones recording, but rather an orchestral version by the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra, named after the band's original manager. Oldham was eventually replaced by Allen Klein, who also replaced Brian Epstein as manager of The Beatles. When the Stones parted with Klein, their entire pre 1971 catalogue ended up under his control. This is why no Stones compilation album prior to "40 Licks" ever featured both pre and post 1971 recordings. At any rate, when "Bittersweet Symphony" got over big, it was Klein and his ABKCO group that filed suit and ultimatey got 100% of the royalties from the recording of the song. Jagger and Richards got belated songwriting credit and the royalties from that end and the publishing, but were not the movers behind the suit. By the way, The Verve had asked for and were denied permission to use a sample of the orchestral recording of "The Last Time" and then went and used it anyway, so they were really asking for what ultimately happened.

[ 01-04-2008, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: tamalie from MN ]

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ukfan
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quote:
Originally posted by GreyGhost:
quote:
Originally posted by wingedf33t:
And here I was thinking Ghost was a lawler or something...

Afraid I'm not a Jerry good Lawler.
The punball champ strikes again... [Big Grin] You'll never be dethroned.

[ 01-04-2008, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: ukfan ]

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Portalesman
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quote:
Originally posted by ukfan:
quote:
Originally posted by GreyGhost:
quote:
Originally posted by wingedf33t:
And here I was thinking Ghost was a lawler or something...

Afraid I'm not a Jerry good Lawler.
The punball champ strikes again... [Big Grin] You'll never be dethroned.
AW CMON! He stole that one from willynumbers.
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GreyGhost from MS
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Bumping up this blast from the past to add that I had lunch at a bar & grill near the courthouse today. Noticed that they've got stickers in the window announcing ASCAP and BMI compliance. Didn't see one for that 3rd outfit mentioned upthread. Does that mean I can't cover All Along the Watchtower there without getting the bar in trouble, since Dylan wrote it and he's under the 3rd outfit?
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Crimson Mask from FL
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No you can't, not if they find out. It's a different license (radio) but here's a related case:

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1036630501736

[ 05-29-2009, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Crimson Mask from FL ]

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HMFiles from WA
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quote:
Originally posted by MoneyDragon:
The minute you profit from a song roualties are do. If your paid and they want to push it, they are do.

(Sorry if this has been discussed earlier in the thread. If so, I could not find it.)

Does the defendant need to profit at all in order to be liable?

I thought the plaintiff doesn't even have to identify damages (ie, lost sales because someone else's version was selling in place of the original.)

And, according to something else I've read, the owner of the copyright is obligated to actively defend a copyright. Otherwise, he/she loses credibility in future suits. (ie, If you did not defend it in the past, you can't defend it in the future.)

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Crimson Mask from FL
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quote:
Originally posted by HMFiles from WA:
quote:
Originally posted by MoneyDragon:
The minute you profit from a song roualties are do. If your paid and they want to push it, they are do.

(Sorry if this has been discussed earlier in the thread. If so, I could not find it.)

Does the defendant need to profit at all in order to be liable?


No, but liable for what, is the question. Liable to be estopped from continuing, sure. But monetary damages...

I thought the plaintiff doesn't even have to identify damages (ie, lost sales because someone else's version was selling in place of the original.)

... you have to identify monetary damages to collect monetary damages.

And, according to something else I've read, the owner of the copyright is obligated to actively defend a copyright. Otherwise, he/she loses credibility in future suits. (ie, If you did not defend it in the past, you can't defend it in the future.)

Pure bull****. True of trademark, not of copyright.



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If you lames are the master race, my money's on the mud people.---Andrew Vachss

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GreyGhost from MS
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
No you can't, not if they find out. It's a different license (radio) but here's a related case:

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1036630501736

Interesting reading. Funny that the example I picked just happened to get one of the max jury awards:


The jury awarded the maximum $150,000 in damages for each of three songs, all by Bob Dylan -- "Knockin' on Heaven's Door," "Make You Feel My Love," and "All Along the Watchtower."


Bottom line here, if I understand correctly, is that I can play whatever I want, and the venue is on the hook for buying the proper licenses, right?

Seems like a place that did not have SESAC ought to protect itself by forbidding any live acts from playing that stuff.

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HMFiles from WA
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:

And, according to something else I've read, the owner of the copyright is obligated to actively defend a copyright. Otherwise, he/she loses credibility in future suits. (ie, If you did not defend it in the past, you can't defend it in the future.)

Pure bull****. True of trademark, not of copyright.

[/QUOTE]
Ahhhh ...

So, if I start a McDonalds restaurant chain, and they fail to sue me (within, what?, a reasonable amount of time?), then they cannot prevent it from happening again.

Y'know, if it weren't for my learnings through a PRO WRESTLING MESSAGE BOARD, I would probably still fail to understand the difference between copyright and trademark.

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Here's to Mark.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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quote:
Originally posted by GreyGhost from MS:
Bottom line here, if I understand correctly, is that I can play whatever I want, and the venue is on the hook for buying the proper licenses, right?

Seems like a place that did not have SESAC ought to protect itself by forbidding any live acts from playing that stuff.

Correct and correct, basically.

[ 05-29-2009, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Crimson Mask from FL ]

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If you lames are the master race, my money's on the mud people.---Andrew Vachss

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Crimson Mask from FL
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quote:
Originally posted by HMFiles from WA:
quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:

And, according to something else I've read, the owner of the copyright is obligated to actively defend a copyright. Otherwise, he/she loses credibility in future suits. (ie, If you did not defend it in the past, you can't defend it in the future.)

Pure bull****. True of trademark, not of copyright.


Ahhhh ...

So, if I start a McDonalds restaurant chain, and they fail to sue me (within, what?, a reasonable amount of time?), then they cannot prevent it from happening again.


Theoretically... yeah. (Realistically... um... )

Y'know, if it weren't for my learnings through a PRO WRESTLING MESSAGE BOARD, I would probably still fail to understand the difference between copyright and trademark.

[Big Grin]

[ 05-29-2009, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Crimson Mask from FL ]

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If you lames are the master race, my money's on the mud people.---Andrew Vachss

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K. Fabian McClinch
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quote:
Originally posted by HMFiles from WA:
So, if I start a McDonalds restaurant chain, and they fail to sue me (within, what?, a reasonable amount of time?), then they cannot prevent it from happening again. . .

Here in Chicago we've had a few interesting variations on this. Back in the '80s a hot dog stand called "Donald Duck's," which had a cartoon duck for its logo, got an injunction placed against it from Disney. The business ended up renaming itself "Duk's" and changing the logo.

Another place called itself "Pluto's" and featured a "weiner dog" on its sign -- I'm not sure, but the story is that Disney got them, as well.

Then there was the little thrift shop called "K's Mart" on Division Street some years back, which closed rather abruptly. Again, I can't swear to it, but rumor has it that they got nailed by K-Mart.

If these tales are true, it seems rather odd that major corporate chains have nothing better on their agendas than going after penny-ante operations like these. What do they do -- have guys driving around urban neighborhoods all over the country, looking for possible trademark violators?

[ 05-29-2009, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: K. Fabian McClinch ]

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Crimson Mask from FL
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But, see, it IS true that you are obligated to defend TRADEMARK, so no, it's not 'odd' at all, and yes, I'm sure they do all kindsa due diligence looking for it.

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Lance Goodthrust from NL
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On a similar note, does Zuffa pay the recording artists whose songs are used in the UFC fighters' entrance?

Assuming they do, just find myself wondering how much. Is it a set rate regardless of the artist/song? Would Michael Jakson get the same fee for Tery Martin coming out to Billie Jean as the Dropkick Murphys get for Forest coming out to "Shipping up to Boston"? Can a song be qualified as more 'valuable' than another?

[ 05-29-2009, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Lance Goodthrust from NL ]

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Crimson Mask from FL
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And again: the venues pay the license for the ring music and whatever other music is played live.

The broadcast license is the responsibility of the TV network for TV, cable or satellite system for those media, and PPV provider for PPV.

Zuffa would be responsible for the internet license.

These are the ASCAP, BMI and SESAC licenses which generally are blanket licenses which cover use of the entire catalogue.

Zuffa would be responsible for the DVD use also. This is a specific license negotiated directly with the copyright holder.

[ 05-29-2009, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Crimson Mask from FL ]

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Travis Cook
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This raises some questions about a specific scenario that I've had for some time: Let's say I hit the lottery, and instead of doing something sensible with the money, I decide to start a wrestling promotion instead. [Cool] Let's get really bizzare and imagine that I get some sort of weekly TV program--nothing national, but on, say, three to five over-the-air TV stations in different markets.

Question #1) Assuming that the BMI/ASCAP license held by the TV station(s) would cover the use of music on my 'rasslin TV show--both for ring entrances and promotional videos made in-house (like those used by Jerry Jarrett, Mid-South/UWF, and ECW)-- is there just one kind of "blanket licence" used by TV stations that covers most songs, or is each station's licence different (meaning that I would have to check the entire list of songs used on my program against the various licenses of *each* station the program airs on, or would the generic license cover everything--and I just have to check my music selections against one "master list")? Also, assuming that each station pays some sort of roylty per the license for each song used, I would suspect that each station manager would demand a clause in the contract that the promotion reimburse them for these royalties--how much more expensive are these royalties for a TV use than for a live venue use?

Question #2) As entrance music (assuming no reproduction of it) would be covered by the license of the venue--what if we assume that at least some of the venues I run shows in do not have a license (say, VFW halls, armories, etc). Would it be permissible for the promotion to purchase their own license, so that we can use entrance music wherever we run without worrying about the headache? (I know this would probably be "under the radar" situation--but if a clip of one of these matches ever makes the TV show, I'd want to make sure those who enforce such things have no ammunition).

Or, on the other hand, is this a license that is so common that even VFW halls, Armories, etc. would already have it?

In a strange way, I find all of this fasinating as I've always felt the use of "real music" in pro wrestling goes a long way in adding a relevance and vibrancy to the product that you just don't get with "canned music".

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quote:
Originally posted by Travis Cook:
This raises some questions about a specific scenario that I've had for some time: Let's say I hit the lottery, and instead of doing something sensible with the money, I decide to start a wrestling promotion instead. [Cool] Let's get really bizzare and imagine that I get some sort of weekly TV program--nothing national, but on, say, three to five over-the-air TV stations in different markets.

Question #1) Assuming that the BMI/ASCAP license held by the TV station(s) would cover the use of music on my 'rasslin TV show--both for ring entrances and promotional videos made in-house (like those used by Jerry Jarrett, Mid-South/UWF, and ECW)-- is there just one kind of "blanket licence" used by TV stations that covers most songs, or is each station's licence different (meaning that I would have to check the entire list of songs used on my program against the various licenses of *each* station the program airs on, or would the generic license cover everything--and I just have to check my music selections against one "master list")?


You don't have to check anything. It's the station or network's problem. Not yours. THEY may ask you for your playlist so THEY can check it, and might then nix you using some specific song if they don't have the license for the organization that administers it, but if they don't, again, it's their ass, not yours. But to answer the other part anyway, yeah, it's usually a general, blanket license.

Also, assuming that each station pays some sort of roylty per the license for each song used, I would suspect that each station manager would demand a clause in the contract that the promotion reimburse them for these royalties--how much more expensive are these royalties for a TV use than for a live venue use?

Nah. They pay 'em. Cost a doin bidness. Again, not your problem.

Question #2) As entrance music (assuming no reproduction of it) would be covered by the license of the venue--what if we assume that at least some of the venues I run shows in do not have a license (say, VFW halls, armories, etc).

They will, though.

Would it be permissible for the promotion to purchase their own license, so that we can use entrance music wherever we run without worrying about the headache?

Sure you could. This is essentially what Muzak/Karaoke providers do. Probably be wasting money in your case, though.

(I know this would probably be "under the radar" situation--but if a clip of one of these matches ever makes the TV show, I'd want to make sure those who enforce such things have no ammunition).

Or, on the other hand, is this a license that is so common that even VFW halls, Armories, etc. would already have it?


Yup, see above (and the rest of the thread).

In a strange way, I find all of this fasinating as I've always felt the use of "real music" in pro wrestling goes a long way in adding a relevance and vibrancy to the product that you just don't get with "canned music".



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