WrestlingClassics.com Message Board Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» WrestlingClassics.com Message Board » Political Discussion » Today is the day, Mueller is on the Hill (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Today is the day, Mueller is on the Hill
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And Donald has lost his mind. I won't be live reporting this one as I got called in to work early but if you can, watch it. I will have it streaming at work so I can at least hear it.
IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I Absolutely love this. Mueller is bringing some of his team with him including his right hand man to testify as well.

Donald has screamed how this is unfair and he never agreed to it. He does not have a choice, lol. He literally is losing his mind.

IP: Logged
Dirko
Member
Member # 125609

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dirko     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not really sure about this. Mueller is such a stick in the mud stickler for rules that his whole investigation did not have the impact it could have had.

I hope he speaks up today and proves me wrong.

--------------------
"Evil is just a measure of how much YOUR choices take away other people's."
(Simon Spurrier)

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He has his right hand man who was there day to day testifying as well, so what Mueller can't answer, he can.
IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
https://twitter.com/girlsreallyrule/status/1154009627413176321

Nadler's opening statement.

 -

 -

 -

Mueller states in his opening statement that he did not make a conclusion on collusion and that Russia DID interfere. He also stated that there was no sufficient evidence for conspiracy, not that were not any.

He just shot down a few of Trump's claims and Barr's claims.

WOW... he just ended the entire Republican line of questioning saying he cannot discuss the origins of the Russia investigation nor the dossier since the DOJ is investigating them. Barr screwed himself as the Republican questioning was all about that, trying to discredit Mueller, lol.

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nadler's first question was a home run. He asks about Trump being innocent of Obstruction and Mueller said Trump was not innocent and his report states Trump was not exonerated. Basically we can go home right now. He has having Mueller explain it in real time, lol. Mueller also states the OLC opinion as his influence. Lol.
IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
WOW.... Nadler had Mueller admit it was only because the OLC opinion, that Trump was not indicted and that Donald refused to be interviewed.
IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/24/politics/robert-mueller-opening-statement-judiciary/index.html

Mueller's opening statement. Shuts down Collins right from the get go.

IP: Logged
King Francis
Member
Member # 24068

Icon 1 posted      Profile for King Francis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
watching it.. this is great so far

--------------------
When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lofgren. Who did the Russians want to become president.

Mueller: That would be Trimp. Trump. The president.

Very important

IP: Logged
King Francis
Member
Member # 24068

Icon 1 posted      Profile for King Francis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ratcliffe has over talked Mueller several times.. ask the question and let him answer... and stop saying respectfully.. or say it right [Wink]

[ 07-24-2019, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: King Francis ]

--------------------
When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sensenbrenner: Why do we have investigation of Trump if you knew you weren't going to prosecute him.

Mueller: OLC opinion itself says you can continue the investigation even though you cannot indict him while sitting

Another important part

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah.... that DOJ letter ordered from Barr has screwed the Republican line of questions. They want to talk Hillary, and the Dossier but since that is being "investigated" by the DOJ right now, Barr has forbidden Mueller to discuss it. This is awesome, lol.
IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rep. Johnson Georgia democrat has five minutes. Gets Mueller to confirm that President asked Don McGahn to fire him and alleged Mueller had conflicts of interest. Further confirmed that DOJ decided Mueller had no conflicts that interfered with his serving as special counsel
IP: Logged
King Francis
Member
Member # 24068

Icon 1 posted      Profile for King Francis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Gohmert was a real ass.. 5 minutes of screaming at Mueller cuz you know, Trump is innocent

--------------------
When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Gomer... sorry... Gohmert puts an article trashing Mueller in to the records. It was written by Gohmert.

https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1154023883470712833

IP: Logged
King Francis
Member
Member # 24068

Icon 1 posted      Profile for King Francis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jordan must be running for election

--------------------
When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jordan is a joke. He literally just shut down the entire Republican narrative regarding the origins of the Mueller report. He stated how it began and it was not the Dossier. They are hurting their own causes
IP: Logged
Travlr
Administrator
Member # 4304

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Travlr     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The format is doing nothing for the Dems to build on, with switching back and forth between them and the GOP; they can't build any momentum or build an argument.

On top of that, they're trying to get Mueller to open up and maybe get some action that might maybe play well on television....and he's saying "read my report" or giving one-word answers.

On the other hand, it's working well for the Republicans who can throw a few bombs and try to tear down Mueller without really having to work at it. All they have to do is keep the Democrats from being able to build any sort of narrative. And so far, they're doing that....

--------------------
The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

IP: Logged
King Francis
Member
Member # 24068

Icon 1 posted      Profile for King Francis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
agree that going back and forth hurts the flow.. but I haven't seen where its working well for the Repubs..

--------------------
When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1154039882278305793?s=19 that just changed. He finally stated Trump can be charged after he leaves office.
IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
https://twitter.com/CAPAction/status/1154043405812371456?s=19. Very huge. Just stated flat out that the OLC opinion is what stopped him from indicting Trump.
IP: Logged
Liz Hunter's Boyfriend
Member
Member # 7919

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Liz Hunter's Boyfriend     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nothing will come of this.

Congressional cowards will not impeach anyway.


*YAAAAWWWWNNNNN [Roll Eyes]

IP: Logged
King Francis
Member
Member # 24068

Icon 1 posted      Profile for King Francis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
most of this isnt for Congress.. its for we the American people to hear from the horses mouth what went on. To get past the lies presented by Cadet BS and his boy toy the A.G.

Will they impeach based on this? no.. the Senate would not convict... yet.. let's see what happens in 2020

Its for all of us or more important the ones in the middle.. not far right or far left.. their views will not change. Enough people see how crooked Trump is, and the voting will reflect it in 2020

--------------------
When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

IP: Logged
Dragonstone
Member
Member # 129157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dragonstone     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On haircuts, Chuck Todd got what he wanted: that his barber didn't charge him. But on optics, this was a disaster.

 -

(yes, I totally stole this from some random person on Twitter).

IP: Logged
Dragonstone
Member
Member # 129157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dragonstone     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by King Francis:
most of this isnt for Congress.. its for we the American people to hear from the horses mouth what went on. To get past the lies presented by Cadet BS and his boy toy the A.G.

Will they impeach based on this? no.. the Senate would not convict... yet.. let's see what happens in 2020

Its for all of us or more important the ones in the middle.. not far right or far left.. their views will not change. Enough people see how crooked Trump is, and the voting will reflect it in 2020

The Senate will NEVER convict. Ever. Trump could literally go on national television and shoot someone on Fifth Avenue in primetime, and they would still fall short of getting 20 Republicans in the Senate on board for his removal from office.

If you think impeachment shouldn't happen until there's a chance for conviction in the Senate, then what you are saying is that you think impeachment should never happen.

The only valid excuse for delaying impeachment at this point is the possibility that it wouldn't get to 218 votes to pass in the House. That would truly be a disaster for Democrats. But I don't think the inability to get a conviction in the Senate is a valid excuse for not holding an impeachment inquiry at this point. If Pelosi believes she can get 218 House Democrats on board, there's no excuse not to move forward.

IP: Logged
Liz Hunter's Boyfriend
Member
Member # 7919

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Liz Hunter's Boyfriend     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by King Francis:
most of this isnt for Congress.. its for we the American people to hear from the horses mouth what went on. To get past the lies presented by Cadet BS and his boy toy the A.G.

Will they impeach based on this? no.. the Senate would not convict... yet.. let's see what happens in 2020

Its for all of us or more important the ones in the middle.. not far right or far left.. their views will not change. Enough people see how crooked Trump is, and the voting will reflect it in 2020

Anyone who can't see that Trump is crooked is a ******* idiot and guaranteed to vote for him in 2020.
IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nadler has made it known today that he can start an impeachment inquiry without Pelosi.
IP: Logged
Travlr
Administrator
Member # 4304

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Travlr     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Unfortunately, I think I have to go along with the NYT, which had the following takeaway:
quote:
Liberals who support opening impeachment proceedings against Mr. Trump had hoped that testimony by the former special counsel would finally electrify their efforts. The early verdict suggests that did not happen.
I'd still like to see the SOB impeached, even if there is never a chance in hell of the Senate Trial bringing back any sort of 2/3 guilty verdict.


And I'd be a very worried Trump the day after I left the White House for good, given Mueller's statements.....

--------------------
The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

IP: Logged
Dragonstone
Member
Member # 129157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dragonstone     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cory:
Nadler has made it known today that he can start an impeachment inquiry without Pelosi.

He could, but that might not be a very good idea.

I've come to the conclusion that the main reason why Pelosi still won't move forward with impeachment is because she knows it would fail in the House right now. They don't have the votes yet. She even made it clear that the Senate's likelihood to exonerate him has nothing to do with her calculation. She isn't holding back because she knows he won't get convicted by the Senate, she's holding back because she knows he wouldn't even be impeached by the House.

The math isn't hard to figure out. She has 235 caucus members. She needs 218 votes to successfully impeach him. The only non-Democrat whose impeachment vote can likely be counted on is Justin Amash. Which means that she could have no more than 18 members of her caucus break with the party on this vote. 35 of her members represent districts that Trump won in 2016. Some of them would almost certainly lose their elections if they voted for impeachment. My guess is that more than 18 of them have told her that as of right now, they are still definite "no" votes on impeachment.

There's a growing consensus that a failure to impeach could be electorally disastrous for Democrats heading into the 2020 elections. I think that fear is not entirely irrational. I think Trump would be much easier to beat next November if he's been impeached than if he hasn't been impeached, even if he gets exonerated in the Senate (he would be). But the one thing that would be an even bigger disaster than failing to launch impeachment hearings would be to launch impeachment hearings and fail to get 218 Democrats on board to move the proceedings over to the Senate. Because then he really would declare "Total exoneration! Even some of the Democrats thought this was all a stupid hoax!"

And he would definitely get re-elected in that scenario.

In conclusion, here are the potential outcomes ranked in terms of how they would impact next year's election for Democrats...

Most Ideal: Trump is impeached.

Not Ideal: Trump is not impeached because the hearings never happened.

Disastrous: Trump is not impeached because the hearings happened and the Democrats failed to get 218 of their own members on board in the final vote.

[ 07-25-2019, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: Dragonstone ]

IP: Logged
King Francis
Member
Member # 24068

Icon 1 posted      Profile for King Francis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thats why they should wait until after the 2020 elections.. dont give the clown a chance to claim a victory like that.

Like Travl said, he can be charged when he is out of office.. if he isnt voted outa office, impeach him. if voted out, charge him..

--------------------
When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

IP: Logged
Travlr
Administrator
Member # 4304

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Travlr     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Further on Dragonstone's points made above.

Firstly, First Read puts all that more succinctly, saying
quote:
Two things can be true about former special counsel Robert Mueller’s congressional testimony yesterday.

It was damaging to President Trump, contradicting the president’s key claims and defenses about the Russia probe. And it all but closed the door on the likelihood of Democrats impeaching the president – given the congressional math.

That last bit is telling, since it suggests that the NBC Political squad has some insight into the "does Pelosi have the 218 votes needed for Impeachment?" question, and their guess is, "No, she doesn't." Maybe not the slam-dunk some think the vote may go. As I've said before, Pelosi is one of the most astute and effective Speakers the House has seen in a couple of generations: She doesn't put anything out on The Floor that she doesn't know is going to pass....or that she wants to see killed publicly in order to further another bill.


This also is important in Dragonstone's "Disastrous" outcome opinion.

Alan Abramowitz, writing at Sabato's Crystal Ball says his current forecast has the Democrats in the canary seat, and likely to pick-up seats in both the House and Senate....and the White House. As things currently stand.
quote:
According to the most recent averages from FiveThirtyEight, national polls have shown a Democratic advantage of around 6.5 points on the House generic ballot — somewhat similar to the results prior to the 2018 midterm election — and a net approval rating for President Trump of about -10. Those numbers, if they continue into the late summer of 2020, would predict Democratic gains of around five seats in the House and six seats in the Senate.

However, there are significant caveats with both projections. Obviously, one of those is that it is very early and that the president’s approval rating and the generic ballot could very well be different late next summer.

And those two specific inputs in Abramowitz' model could easily change should the House fail to find the 218 votes necessary to impeach Trump.

Abramowitz' forecasting has been very good, mostly based on his "time-for-change model". He's one of "The Pros" that, when he speaks, people should listen. And rest assured that the Party strategists do exactly that when he pipes up with a piece like this.

Which will re-inforce Pelosi's stance, I'm thinking. She's too good at reading the political tea-leaves to miss what that "Disastrous" outcome of Dragonstone's could mean to an outcome like ABramowitz is suggesting.

--------------------
The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

IP: Logged
K. Fabian McClinch
Member
Member # 6275

Icon 1 posted      Profile for K. Fabian McClinch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dragonstone:
. . . Disastrous: Trump is not impeached because the hearings happened and the Democrats failed to get 218 of their own members on board in the final vote. . .

. . . AND T-Rump gets to play the "Victim" card, using this to legitimize his self-portrayal as being persecuted by anti-American opportunists who want to tear him down and take "our" country down with him. This would be red meat to his diehard supporters, and a lot of so-called "moderates" who've bought the "Democrats are a bunch-a USA-hating socialists" line would take it as evidence that maybe he was right after all, so re-electing him would be tantamount to saving the country.

More or less a replay of Nixon/McGovern.

[ 07-25-2019, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: K. Fabian McClinch ]

--------------------
"Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Four shots ripped into my groin, and I was off on one of the strangest adventures of my life." (Max Shulman)

IP: Logged
Travlr
Administrator
Member # 4304

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Travlr     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nixon/McGovern had a very different dynamic. At the time of the election, Watergate wasn't on anyone's radar as a possible impeachable element; it really was just a a "third-rate burglary" that didn't have any real political impact. All that came after the election.

Nixon/McGovern was all about Vietnam, the coutner-culture vs. the establishment, guaranteed minimum incomes for the nation's poor and the replacement of Thomas Eagleton as the Dems' Veep nominee by Sargent Shriver. And Nixon, weakened as he had been in the 1970 midterms, still led in the polls almost all the way to election day.

And when the "original" October Surprise hit on 26October with Kissinger's famous "We believe... that peace is at hand" statement from the Paris Peace Talks killed any chance at all for McGovern by taking away the vast majority of the youth vote that he had been counting on (first time 18-yearolds could vote, right?).


This is a very different paradigm from 1972.

--------------------
The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The thing is, an impeachment inquiry is not the same as an impeachment vote. You can do an inquiry, have the same effect as far as getting the information out goes, but not have the vote that could potentially damage the party.
IP: Logged
Cory
Member
Member # 6097

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cory     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For those who did not watch

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/full-transcript-robert-mueller-house-committee-testimony-n1033216?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

IP: Logged
diamondmd
Member
Member # 1292

Icon 1 posted      Profile for diamondmd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As much as I respect Trav's political observations, and the growing resect for Dragonstone's, here's what neither of you are taking into consideration: The Republicans willingness and desire to cheat to remain in power. And the Democrat's total weakeness and willingness to roll over to them.
IP: Logged
K. Fabian McClinch
Member
Member # 6275

Icon 1 posted      Profile for K. Fabian McClinch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
Nixon/McGovern had a very different dynamic. At the time of the election, Watergate wasn't on anyone's radar as a possible impeachable element; it really was just a a "third-rate burglary" that didn't have any real political impact. All that came after the election.

Nixon/McGovern was all about Vietnam, the coutner-culture vs. the establishment, guaranteed minimum incomes for the nation's poor and the replacement of Thomas Eagleton as the Dems' Veep nominee by Sargent Shriver. And Nixon, weakened as he had been in the 1970 midterms, still led in the polls almost all the way to election day.

And when the "original" October Surprise hit on 26October with Kissinger's famous "We believe... that peace is at hand" statement from the Paris Peace Talks killed any chance at all for McGovern by taking away the vast majority of the youth vote that he had been counting on (first time 18-yearolds could vote, right?).

This is a very different paradigm from 1972.

I see your point, but with all respect I believe T-Rump will play the race/"socialist" card the same way Nixon and his henchmen played the "counterculture" card, and the "threat" of immigration will take the place of the "threat" of communism in Southeast Asia as the existential threat facing America if the Repubs don't keep the White House.

For that matter, the ACA ("socialized medicine") and, perhaps, even the specter of a guaranteed national income, which has been floated by some progressives (and which I believe might in fact be a proposal buried somewhere in the Green New Deal template) will take the place of Nixon's "welfare" rhetoric.

As for the polls -- I think the last election showed us that in the Tweeter/Twitter/Twatter era, polls that gather information systematically don't have much predictive value. And as much as I hate to admit it, I think that a lot of the more activist-minded progressives (more or less the analogues to the anti-war "youth vote" of '72) may well decide to stay home if Harris or some other less-than-ideologically-pure Democrat gets the nomination.

So I remain pessimistic . . .

--------------------
"Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Four shots ripped into my groin, and I was off on one of the strangest adventures of my life." (Max Shulman)

IP: Logged
Dragonstone
Member
Member # 129157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dragonstone     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cory:
The thing is, an impeachment inquiry is not the same as an impeachment vote. You can do an inquiry, have the same effect as far as getting the information out goes, but not have the vote that could potentially damage the party.

The problem with that approach is that if you do the impeachment inquiry, at the end of it, the committee has to either take a vote to put articles of impeachment before the full house, or they have to vote to table the matter indefinitely. If they vote to table it, that telegraphs that the committee didn't believe they could get a majority in the full house for impeachment. If they vote to put it before the full house, they're taking a gamble on whether or not they can get to 218 votes.
IP: Logged
Dragonstone
Member
Member # 129157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dragonstone     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by diamondmd:
As much as I respect Trav's political observations, and the growing resect for Dragonstone's, here's what neither of you are taking into consideration: The Republicans willingness and desire to cheat to remain in power. And the Democrat's total weakeness and willingness to roll over to them.

Just to be clear, I absolutely want Trump to be impeached, even though I know there's no chance of him actually being removed from office by the Senate. I think the best case scenario for Democrats is for them being able to launch a comprehensive impeachment inquiry that sways public opinion against Trump and ends with him being impeached by the House. The Senate will exonerate him, but ideally, the Republicans would pay a big political price for that. Especially Senators Gardner, Collins, and McSally, who are all up for re-election next year in vulnerable seats. I think Doug Jones could potentially benefit from it as well, if the evidence is damning enough. Especially if Alabama Republicans are stupid enough to nominate Roy Moore again.

I think a failure to impeach him would probably demoralize Democrats and could affect turnout adversely. And I would be much less confident about our chances if that happens.

But I think the worst possible outcome would be to play ready, fire, aim with impeachment, plow right into the process and have it end without him actually being impeached, whether it's because they take a vote and it fails or they table it indefinitely (which would telegraph that they didn't have the votes).

In the end, the only way Donald Trump will be leaving the White House before January 20, 2021 is if he's in a box. I don't think that's a particularly likely outcome. So we need to focus on beating him at the ballot box, because that's the only way we're getting rid of him before 2025. Impeachment could strengthen our odds of beating him at the ballot box, but only if we know the effort to impeach him will be successful in the House. So the decision to move forward with an impeachment inquiry has to answer this critical question - is undertaking this course of action more likely to help or harm our chances of getting rid of him in November 2020? I believe the answer is "help", but only if they're all but certain that they can get to 218 votes.

IP: Logged
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | WrestlingClassics.com Home Page

Click here to see the WCMB Rules and Regulations

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3