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Author Topic: More racism from Trump
Cory
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Again for those who refuse to understand he is a racist piece of trash, this gem came from today

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448

So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......

....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....

....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!


The thing is... he is sort of correct. 3 of the 4 -do- come from a country whose government is a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world.

3/4 were born in the US.

- AOC was born in NYC
- Rashida Tlaib was born in Detroit
- Ayanna Pressley was born in Cincinnati

As for the fourth...

Omar came to the US when she was 10 and became a citizen at 17. She is 37. She has been a citizen for two decades.

[ 07-14-2019, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Cory ]

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The Fake J.D. McKay
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When I was a kid growing up here in Texas in the 60's the rally cry of racists all over was "put them on a boat and ship them back to Africa!"

That is what this is. Nothing more, nothing less.

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King Francis
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unreal that the Repubs will turn a deaf ear to the obvious acts of racism. Some will defend this statement, while his base of morons will cheer and shout MERIKA.. MERIKA...

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When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

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Gil Wilcox
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Everybody came from somewhere else, struggled and were persecuted in one way or another.

His blind followers seem to ignore their history, while the fellow members of his party are afraid to speak up.

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Cory
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When he was called racist from literally everyone, he just tried to spin it instead of just leaving it.
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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by Cory:
When he was called racist from literally everyone, he just tried to spin it instead of just leaving it.

Case In Point....

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The Traveller
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Cory
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Even Geraldo has turned on Trump this weekend.
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The Fake J.D. McKay
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quote:
Originally posted by Cory:
Even Geraldo has turned on Trump this weekend.

Horrendous Revolver is a total joke as both a journalist and human. He is no reference point except for things I never want to be.
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Cory
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Right and the fact even he said Trump was wrong says something.
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King Francis
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but the base be loving it... anything to take the minds off all teh investigations and Mueller's testimony

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When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

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Travlr
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It isn't just his base that Trump is aiming for, though. The politics of the racist rants is far more direct, and at the same time subtle.

Here's the deal: AOC and her "Squad" are becoming the face of the Democratic Party. A defining face, and it's one that doesn't necessarily sit well with an important group of voters. Mike Allen at AXIOS yesterday was talking about a new poll out about AOC, specifically about her becoming "a definitional face for the party":
quote:
Top Democrats are circulating a poll showing that one of the House’s most progressive members — Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez — has become a definitional face for the party with a crucial group of swing voters.

These Democrats are sounding the alarm that swing voters know and dislike socialism, warning it could cost them the House and the presidency. The poll is making the rounds of some of the most influential Democrats in America.

This should worry Democrats, since numerous pollings over the last year and some show a definite majority (60%+) of American voters saying they would not vote for a "socialist" (and let's not belabour the definition right now; in this case perception -- you should pardon the expression -- trumps reality). AOC may be the darling of New York and Cali and Massachuesetts....but how is she (and her Squad), as the perceived standard-bearer(s) of the Democrats, going to play in Iowa, or Florida, or Arizona. Or (possibly more importantly) in Wisconsin?

But it actually goes a bit deeper than that. We all know how the Dems will react to his TWEETS: with justified outrage. Of course. But it also helps him tie all Democrats -- and especially those running for president -- to the most liberal side of their party, whether they actually are or not.

At the same time it also allows him to speak to his racist base in a way no president has dared to do in modern times.

And as I've said, the "you're either with us or against us" mentality that the ideologues of the Far Right and Left have been pushing for the last decade (hell, the last generation) works to his purpose.

Trump, and thus the Republicans, have pretty much decided they don't need the center to hold power -- got three or four articles on the subject if anyone is interested -- so all they're trying to do now is create a rift between the Center and the Left and hope that the Center stays home next year, being disgusted with both sides....and they can get OH, PA, WI and MI again....and keep the White House and maybe grab back some of those CDs in Texas and Georgia and Arizona they lost last year.....

It's not a bad strategy.

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The Traveller
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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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King Francis
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
It isn't just his base that Trump is aiming for, though. The politics of the racist rants is far more direct, and at the same time subtle.

Here's the deal: AOC and her "Squad" are becoming the face of the Democratic Party. A defining face, and it's one that doesn't necessarily sit well with an important group of voters. Mike Allen at AXIOS yesterday was talking about a new poll out about AOC, specifically about her becoming "a definitional face for the party":
quote:
Top Democrats are circulating a poll showing that one of the House’s most progressive members — Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez — has become a definitional face for the party with a crucial group of swing voters.

These Democrats are sounding the alarm that swing voters know and dislike socialism, warning it could cost them the House and the presidency. The poll is making the rounds of some of the most influential Democrats in America.

This should worry Democrats, since numerous pollings over the last year and some show a definite majority (60%+) of American voters saying they would not vote for a "socialist" (and let's not belabour the definition right now; in this case perception -- you should pardon the expression -- trumps reality). AOC may be the darling of New York and Cali and Massachuesetts....but how is she (and her Squad), as the perceived standard-bearer(s) of the Democrats, going to play in Iowa, or Florida, or Arizona. Or (possibly more importantly) in Wisconsin?

But it actually goes a bit deeper than that. We all know how the Dems will react to his TWEETS: with justified outrage. Of course. But it also helps him tie all Democrats -- and especially those running for president -- to the most liberal side of their party, whether they actually are or not.

At the same time it also allows him to speak to his racist base in a way no president has dared to do in modern times.

And as I've said, the "you're either with us or against us" mentality that the ideologues of the Far Right and Left have been pushing for the last decade (hell, the last generation) works to his purpose.

Trump, and thus the Republicans, have pretty much decided they don't need the center to hold power -- got three or four articles on the subject if anyone is interested -- so all they're trying to do now is create a rift between the Center and the Left and hope that the Center stays home next year, being disgusted with both sides....and they can get OH, PA, WI and MI again....and keep the White House and maybe grab back some of those CDs in Texas and Georgia and Arizona they lost last year.....

It's not a bad strategy.

divide and conquer...

why I am for a centralist as the Dem candidate with a younger VP. as a country we need to get out of the quagmire that is the Trump presidency. To swing far left will leave many behind and they may stay home. We need everyone to vote from the Dem side.. every last one of us

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When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

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Bcleah
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Trump is brilliant at this. He has come out with maybe his most outrageous statement as President. And this thread, in a generally liberal board, is more interested in the political implications than the outrage that should spew out of any non racist person on the planet.

That is not really criticism, as we are not alone. Trump has done it, he seemingly cannot shock anymore. Which does make you wonder what he needs to say to create some red meat next year for his base?!

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diamondmd
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If the "swing" voters think what AOC, Bernie, Warren and others are proposing is "socialism" then they are just as ignorant as tRump voters. They are are the type that vote against their own interests because they fall for scare tactics and are too stupid or too lazy to actually look at facts. And the corporate democrats are using them just like they use the so-called "working class" white tRump voters as some magic group that should decide the future of the country.

[ 07-15-2019, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: diamondmd ]

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King Francis
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quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
Trump is brilliant at this. He has come out with maybe his most outrageous statement as President. And this thread, in a generally liberal board, is more interested in the political implications than the outrage that should spew out of any non racist person on the planet.

That is not really criticism, as we are not alone. Trump has done it, he seemingly cannot shock anymore. Which does make you wonder what he needs to say to create some red meat next year for his base?!

da*n valid point.. when overt racist statements bring a shrug, we have sunk to a new low.. guilty as identified

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When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by diamondmd:
If the "swing" voters think what AOC, Bernie, Warren and others are proposing is "socialism" then they are just as ignorant as tRump voters. They are are the type that vote against their own interests because they fall for scare tactics and are too stupid or too lazy to actually look at facts. And the corporate democrats are using them just like they use the so-called "working class" white tRump voters as some magic group that should decide the future of the country.

Like I said, it's not about the facts: It's about perception. If AOC is the face of the Party instead of Pelosi, Schumer or whomever gets the nomination next year, you got a problem. And Trump and the GOP have been ramping up the "Socialist" labelling for over a year now (had a thread about that long ago here), so they are trying to peel off those swing voters that don't always vote Dem by pushing that perception.

Remember: "Socialism" has been a political boogey-man for nearly 100 years in the US. If you want to play the Social Democrat game -- which is vastly different from Socialism, and doesn't really mean what Bernie and others have been trying to sell -- you better OWN that term and use it as a weapon....before the other guys use it as a weapon on you.

And yeah, there's a lot of us in the Center who look at AOC and "The Squad" and regard it in much the same way we do the Freedom Caucus (albeit for different reasons). And that is at least because of the perception of her and her's being their Far Left equivalent, and we want nothing to do that flavour of extremism, either.

Like I said: Perception, not reality.

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The Traveller
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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
Trump is brilliant at this. He has come out with maybe his most outrageous statement as President. And this thread, in a generally liberal board, is more interested in the political implications than the outrage that should spew out of any non racist person on the planet.

That is not really criticism, as we are not alone. Trump has done it, he seemingly cannot shock anymore. Which does make you wonder what he needs to say to create some red meat next year for his base?!

Oh, never doubt that the outrage is there: It just doesn't do anything to let one's emotions interfere with trying to figure out the possible outcomes of it all. There's more to it than "just simple racism". And if you allow your outrage to blind you to what could happen because of it, you are doing yourself, your Party/Parties, your ethics and your nation a disservice.

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The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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dthcm
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
quote:
Originally posted by diamondmd:
If the "swing" voters think what AOC, Bernie, Warren and others are proposing is "socialism" then they are just as ignorant as tRump voters. They are are the type that vote against their own interests because they fall for scare tactics and are too stupid or too lazy to actually look at facts. And the corporate democrats are using them just like they use the so-called "working class" white tRump voters as some magic group that should decide the future of the country.

Like I said, it's not about the facts: It's about perception. If AOC is the face of the Party instead of Pelosi, Schumer or whomever gets the nomination next year, you got a problem. And Trump and the GOP have been ramping up the "Socialist" labelling for over a year now (had a thread about that long ago here), so they are trying to peel off those swing voters that don't always vote Dem by pushing that perception.

Remember: "Socialism" has been a political boogey-man for nearly 100 years in the US. If you want to play the Social Democrat game -- which is vastly different from Socialism, and doesn't really mean what Bernie and others have been trying to sell -- you better OWN that term and use it as a weapon....before the other guys use it as a weapon on you.

And yeah, there's a lot of us in the Center who look at AOC and "The Squad" and regard it in much the same way we do the Freedom Caucus (albeit for different reasons). And that is at least because of the perception of her and her's being their Far Left equivalent, and we want nothing to do that flavour of extremism, either.

Like I said: Perception, not reality.

Let people know how important social programs are to their benefit. List them all and show them what would happen if they went away.

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I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then

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Travlr
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Excellent suggestion.

And there won't be a one of the Dem candidates that will do it. Nor will the spokespeople for the DNC, DSCC or DCCC attempt it, either.

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The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Liz Hunter's Boyfriend
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
quote:
Originally posted by diamondmd:
If the "swing" voters think what AOC, Bernie, Warren and others are proposing is "socialism" then they are just as ignorant as tRump voters. They are are the type that vote against their own interests because they fall for scare tactics and are too stupid or too lazy to actually look at facts. And the corporate democrats are using them just like they use the so-called "working class" white tRump voters as some magic group that should decide the future of the country.

Like I said, it's not about the facts: It's about perception. If AOC is the face of the Party instead of Pelosi, Schumer or whomever gets the nomination next year, you got a problem. And Trump and the GOP have been ramping up the "Socialist" labelling for over a year now (had a thread about that long ago here), so they are trying to peel off those swing voters that don't always vote Dem by pushing that perception.

Remember: "Socialism" has been a political boogey-man for nearly 100 years in the US. If you want to play the Social Democrat game -- which is vastly different from Socialism, and doesn't really mean what Bernie and others have been trying to sell -- you better OWN that term and use it as a weapon....before the other guys use it as a weapon on you.

And yeah, there's a lot of us in the Center who look at AOC and "The Squad" and regard it in much the same way we do the Freedom Caucus (albeit for different reasons). And that is at least because of the perception of her and her's being their Far Left equivalent, and we want nothing to do that flavour of extremism, either.

Like I said: Perception, not reality.

Why do you think AOC is perceived as the face of the dems, over Pelosi & Schumer?
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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by Liz Hunter's Boyfriend:
Why do you think AOC is perceived as the face of the dems, over Pelosi & Schumer?

Partially because of the coverage in the press, partially due to the efforts of both the Progressive supporters on the one side and the the Reactionary supporters on the other. Let's face it, you can't go on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram or Reddit and NOT see something about her (pro or con). The same cannot be said for Pelosi and/or Schumer. And those two (for now) are the actual leaders of the Democrats. But they are'nt getting the ink/bandwidth.

Plus there is the result of some polls that are saying she is becoming that face in some important States, and in the eyes of some important voters..

And that poll was taken before that little flare-up between her and Pelosi last week.

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The Traveller
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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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K. Fabian McClinch
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quote:
Originally posted by dthcm:
Let people know how important social programs are to their benefit. List them all and show them what would happen if they went away.

Am absolutely rational, intelligent suggestion. And it probably won't work, because the dumbed-down "mainstream" Amurrikans whom T-Rump is appealing to have nothing to do with rationality or intelligence -- superstition, fear, and prejudice are their driving motivations. They'll see four women of color talking about "solidarity" and they'll immediately panic, decide that "those people" are closer than ever to taking over "our" country, and they'll do whatever they think it takes to prevent it.

And all of a sudden, a lot of those "moderates" who thought T-Rump was going a bit too far will also panic and decide they'd better go along with the pogrom -- uh, excuse me, the program-- to be on the safe side. And voila! A ready-made army of storm troopers and complicit quislings. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

This is fascism, folks. It's the same old playbook, and it's working for T-Rump just as it worked for Hitler and his other predecessors. Remember, tyrants need followers to help them come into power, and they know exactly which buttons to push in order to get 'em.

To be clear, I am NOT blaming AOC and her colleagues for this -- they're doing the right thing. They're telling the truth as they see it, with no varnishing or veneer, and in most cases they've been spot-on. Even though I do agree that some of Ilhan Omar's comments about Israel and Jews have been misguided (at best), and that she needs to learn to rein some of that stuff in, overall I think they're on the right track to making necessary improvements in our system.

But they're up against a propaganda master unmatched since Goebbels who's got a riled-up, dumbed-down constituency at the tip of his Twitter-finger.

I see very dark times ahead.

[ 07-16-2019, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: K. Fabian McClinch ]

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"Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Four shots ripped into my groin, and I was off on one of the strangest adventures of my life." (Max Shulman)

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Dragonstone
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
quote:
Originally posted by Liz Hunter's Boyfriend:
Why do you think AOC is perceived as the face of the dems, over Pelosi & Schumer?

Partially because of the coverage in the press, partially due to the efforts of both the Progressive supporters on the one side and the the Reactionary supporters on the other. Let's face it, you can't go on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram or Reddit and NOT see something about her (pro or con). The same cannot be said for Pelosi and/or Schumer. And those two (for now) are the actual leaders of the Democrats. But they are'nt getting the ink/bandwidth.

Plus there is the result of some polls that are saying she is becoming that face in some important States, and in the eyes of some important voters..

And that poll was taken before that little flare-up between her and Pelosi last week.

From your link:
quote:
The poll — taken in May, before Speaker Pelosi's latest run-in with AOC and the three other liberal House freshmen known as "The Squad" — included 1,003 likely general-election voters who are white and have two years or less of college education.
AOC is becoming the face of the party among a group of voters who voted for Trump by a margin of 67-28 in 2016, and will likely vote for him by a similar margin next year. I'm not sure her unpopularity with a group of people Trump already has firmly in his camp means very much.

Democrats path to victory in 2018 was winning back educated suburban white people, not Cletus and Billy Bob in the sticks. The same is true for 2020.

I'm so done with the silly 1980s nostalgic belief that the Democrats need to win back the so-called Reagan Democrats - a group of people who have effectively been Republicans for nearly 40 years now.

Democrats do well when they convince black people, brown people, young people, and women to show up at the polls. When those people come out in force on election day, Democrats do well. When they stay home, they lose. It's not rocket science. They aren't going to win over Joe the Plumber now, or ever again. He's gone to Trumplandia, and he's never coming back.

[ 07-16-2019, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Dragonstone ]

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Dragonstone
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Let's also put to bed the notion that the Tea Party movement - which is the ideological inspiration for the MAGA brigade - had anything to do with concern for the debt. They hated Obama because he was black, period. And they love Trump because he's racist, period. They don't actually give a crap about the debt and deficit, which are now at all-time highs and getting much worse under Trump than they ever did under Obama. And yet when is the last time you heard any prominent GOP politician or pundit speak out about the debt or deficit? Strange how that just sort of stopped being a major concern right around January 2017.

[ 07-16-2019, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Dragonstone ]

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Liz Hunter's Boyfriend
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
quote:
Originally posted by Liz Hunter's Boyfriend:
Why do you think AOC is perceived as the face of the dems, over Pelosi & Schumer?

Partially because of the coverage in the press, partially due to the efforts of both the Progressive supporters on the one side and the the Reactionary supporters on the other. Let's face it, you can't go on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram or Reddit and NOT see something about her (pro or con). The same cannot be said for Pelosi and/or Schumer. And those two (for now) are the actual leaders of the Democrats. But they are'nt getting the ink/bandwidth.

Plus there is the result of some polls that are saying she is becoming that face in some important States, and in the eyes of some important voters..

And that poll was taken before that little flare-up between her and Pelosi last week.

Nothing to do with AOC herself, or that her message resonates with people?

I've watched you go after AOC on this board for months, making a show of backing it up with thinly-sourced crap. Like the Axios poll you cite above.

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Travlr
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It's herself, her message and the way both are played by both ends of the stick. And that poll suggests that it's not necessarily going over as well in areas that the Dems need to do their best at.

As I noted twice now, it doesn't have anything to do with reality: It has to do with perception. And if she is perceived as the standard-bearer for the Party instead of Schumer or Pelosi (or whomever get the nomination), then the Dems could have some real problems in States that they don't need any additional ones (i.e., Arizona, Wisconsin, Iowa).

In fact, now that I think on it some more, if she is viewed as the standard-bearer for the Democrats instead of whomever gets the Nom, then the Dems have a much bigger problem than just this one public PoV.


And I've never made any bones about her being too far to the Left for me. Bottom line, I probably wouldn't vote for her if she was in my Riding (and I've voted Green Party here before, so keep that in mind, too).

I like that she's shaking things up in the Dem Caucus: They need it, especially at the Leadership level. But then I turn around and remember that Mark Meadows did the very same thing across the hall, and we all know how that's been working out, right.....?

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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Crimson Mask from FL
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Why is she the face of the party? I think it's a really simple question. Look at the faces. I'm not being flip. As far as whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, I believe in the long run it's a very very good thing. The best possible thing outside of a viable third-party rising. The Democrats have become standard Republican Lite. They need to reclaim an identity as being an actual opposition to the neo-fascism which has become the GOP.

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So long from the Sunshine State!

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PsychoSem
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I have to agree with Trav here.

The majority of Democratic voters are still way more moderate then what 'the Squad' stands for, but now those four are 'front and center' when it comes to the party because of this.

I used to think that Trump would have been much wiser just to ignore the fringe and keep his mouth shut (yeah right!) and let those types do themselves in, but this could stand to be much more effective after seeing how Dem candidates were trying their best to 'out left' one another in the first round of debates instead of actually talking about Trump.

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The future's uncertain and the end is always near...

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ltp711
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AOC is the new boogie person for the far right and if she wasn’t around they they’d be giving someone else the same treatment, it’s been in their playbook since 1968. They have people convinced she’s going to run for President or be a VP pick even thought she isn’t even old enough for either office.
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Shaving Weezie Jefferson
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
Why is she the face of the party? I think it's a really simple question. Look at the faces. I'm not being flip. As far as whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, I believe in the long run it's a very very good thing. The best possible thing outside of a viable third-party rising. The Democrats have become standard Republican Lite. They need to reclaim an identity as being an actual opposition to the neo-fascism which has become the GOP.

In other words, you don't beat WWE by doing a watered down version of WWE.Same rules apply.

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This post isn't about wrestling. It is intended only to mock and criticize Richard Wallner.

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HEN from MS
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Longstoryshortformany: Racism > Socialism.

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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
Why is she the face of the party? I think it's a really simple question. Look at the faces. I'm not being flip. As far as whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, I believe in the long run it's a very very good thing. The best possible thing outside of a viable third-party rising. The Democrats have become standard Republican Lite. They need to reclaim an identity as being an actual opposition to the neo-fascism which has become the GOP.

She isn't the face of the Party yet. And may never be. But she is being pushed to being so by both ends of the political spectrum. For different reasons, obviously. So it isn't entirely because of her own efforts or what people perceive the Democrats as being or not being.

And as ltp711 points out, this has been SOP for the GOP since the 60s. As the NYT reports,
quote:
[Trump] has told aides, in fact, that he is pleased with the Democratic reaction to his attacks, boasting that he is "marrying" the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic Party to the four congresswomen known as "the Squad".
So while Trump's racism has helped some to have the Democrats come together after their public spat -- and this will help keep the Democratic voters from splitting (at least somewhat) -- it's also going to create some speed-bumps in some States and with some voters that the Dems can't really afford to have to add extra effort to (although hey will, anyway).

And like I also said, I like that she's shaking things up internally. But I am concerned that the end result will be something like the Meadow's Freedom Caucus over on the GOP side. Some might be happy that they effectively forced out John Boehner as Speaker, but was the end result of that actually anything that most of us wanted to see? And do we really want to see a Progressive version of the TEA Party playing that game?



More to the point of the thread, however, is a new Reuter/Ipsos poll that is showing that GOP voter net approval for Trump jumped 5-points after his Tweets, coming up to 72% overall. Not surprisingly, Trump lost support with both Democrats and independents.

End result was a wash: His approval remained right where it was from last week before the Tweets, 41% to 55%.

Plus ça change.....

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King Francis
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the trumpsters are pushing for her to be the "face" so she can be the boogie man or woman that everyone needs to fear..

which fits right into the racist base.

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When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by King Francis:
the trumpsters are pushing for her to be the "face" so she can be the boogie man or woman that everyone needs to fear..

which fits right into the racist base.

Exactly.

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The Traveller
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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Travlr
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BTW, let me point out that my concerns are based on what I perceive (there's that word again) as being electorally advantageous and disadvantageous versus what AOC and "The Squad" do policywise with the Party (which, as I've stated, needs a shake-up).

As I've noted many times before, my real interest in this stuff is electoral, not legislative.

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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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K. Fabian McClinch
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Folks, it's not just about AOC's (or the "squad's") allegedly "socialist" views. When looked at objectively, they're not as far from the "mainstream" as a lot of their critics would have us believe. A significant number of Americans are willing to consider some form of "Medicare for all;" when stripped of some of its rhetorical excesses, the Green New Deal has genuine potential to fly as a win-win combination of job-creation and environmental sanity.

Remember, Bernie Sanders had a decent showing last time around, and (unlike the Squad, as far as I know) he proudly labeled himself a "socialist." I'm sure there would have been more red-baiting if he'd gotten the nomination and gone head-to-head with T-Rump, but the fact that he's an older, grandfatherly white guy with a reassuring personality might well have deflected a lot of it. Even conservative commentators were fretting that he was making the "S"-word respectable again, for the first time (probably) since the 19330s.

The reason AOC and the rest of the "squad" are being dangled like red meat in front of the bloodshot eyes of "middle-Amurikka" is that they're young women of color, at least two of whom have noticeable "furren" accents. It's racism and xenophobia, pure and simple. The supposedly radical nature of their beliefs is a distant second.

They are "those people" incarnate, and as such it's being wagered that they're enough to give Mr. and Mrs. Anytown USA cardiac arrest.

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diamondmd
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And what is all the talk around? How white people feel about them, or how it effects the Democrats chanced with white people.

How about asking the people they represent and have had similar lives if they feel they are 'radical".

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Dragonstone
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
It's herself, her message and the way both are played by both ends of the stick. And that poll suggests that it's not necessarily going over as well in areas that the Dems need to do their best at.

As I noted twice now, it doesn't have anything to do with reality: It has to do with perception. And if she is perceived as the standard-bearer for the Party instead of Schumer or Pelosi (or whomever get the nomination), then the Dems could have some real problems in States that they don't need any additional ones (i.e., Arizona, Wisconsin, Iowa).

In fact, now that I think on it some more, if she is viewed as the standard-bearer for the Democrats instead of whomever gets the Nom, then the Dems have a much bigger problem than just this one public PoV.


And I've never made any bones about her being too far to the Left for me. Bottom line, I probably wouldn't vote for her if she was in my Riding (and I've voted Green Party here before, so keep that in mind, too).

I like that she's shaking things up in the Dem Caucus: They need it, especially at the Leadership level. But then I turn around and remember that Mark Meadows did the very same thing across the hall, and we all know how that's been working out, right.....?

Again... she is perceived to be the face of the party among WHITE VOTERS WITHOUT COLLEGE DEGREES.

Basically, Trump's base. The Democrats aren't going to win over Trump's base, so why does it matter if they view her negatively?

You know who else polls really horribly with this particular group of people? Nancy freaking Pelosi. Among the MAGA brigade, even Joe Biden is a freaking socialist.

Incidentally, the Axios reporting on this anonymous unsourced poll without any comprehensive supporting data being made available is getting absolutely shredded by the political punditry and polling analysts.

[ 07-17-2019, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Dragonstone ]

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Crimson Mask from FL
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And in Today's Installment of Dog Bites Man News...

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-approval-republican-voters-rose-after-racist-tweets-2019-7

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1000 Masks But No Jobs
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quote:
Originally posted by K. Fabian McClinch:
Folks, it's not just about AOC's (or the "squad's") allegedly "socialist" views. When looked at objectively, they're not as far from the "mainstream" as a lot of their critics would have us believe. A significant number of Americans are willing to consider some form of "Medicare for all;" when stripped of some of its rhetorical excesses, the Green New Deal has genuine potential to fly as a win-win combination of job-creation and environmental sanity.

Remember, Bernie Sanders had a decent showing last time around, and (unlike the Squad, as far as I know) he proudly labeled himself a "socialist." I'm sure there would have been more red-baiting if he'd gotten the nomination and gone head-to-head with T-Rump, but the fact that he's an older, grandfatherly white guy with a reassuring personality might well have deflected a lot of it. Even conservative commentators were fretting that he was making the "S"-word respectable again, for the first time (probably) since the 19330s.

The reason AOC and the rest of the "squad" are being dangled like red meat in front of the bloodshot eyes of "middle-Amurikka" is that they're young women of color, at least two of whom have noticeable "furren" accents. It's racism and xenophobia, pure and simple. The supposedly radical nature of their beliefs is a distant second.

They are "those people" incarnate, and as such it's being wagered that they're enough to give Mr. and Mrs. Anytown USA cardiac arrest.

Sanders' strength last time around was also helped by the fact that he was the only other Democratic option to a candidate with lots of baggage. With more choices, he is not nearly as strong this time around.

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