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Author Topic: Band known for displaying Confederate flag gets "Mississippi Blues Trail" recognition
K. Fabian McClinch
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I know some of the people involved in the Mississippi Blues Trail designations, and I'm disgusted and deeply pi$$ed. I hope anyone on that committee with a conscience resigns in protest.

https://wreg.com/2019/07/01/mississippi-blues-trail-markers-will-honor-lynyrd-skynyrd/

[ 07-01-2019, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: K. Fabian McClinch ]

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John_WIlliamson
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Link don't work in my country. They're not really a blues band are they?

As for giving them recognition, would you rather them be wiped from history? I'm not a big fan but they are a pretty legendary band aren't they?

And I don't know much about them but I know them as the guys who play 'Freebird' and 'sweet Home Alabama'

[ 07-01-2019, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: John_WIlliamson ]

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Armageddon_T_Thunderbird
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MCCOMB, Miss. — People are raising money for two Mississippi Blues Trail markers to commemorate the 1977 plane crash that killed three members of the rock band Lynyrd Skynyrd, their road manager and two pilots.

I don't see what's wrong about this. The Freebirds wore Confederate flags as well. Do we need to petition the WWe hof to remove them too because of it?

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K. Fabian McClinch
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I don't really care what WWe does with/about the Freebirds. That's a different issue.

Okay, the guys died tragically. I get that. If their fans want to commemorate them, they have that right. But no way in hell should this band be honored in this way, in the name of the music created and lived by Black folks under the lash (literally) of the very people whom that flag represents.

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Armageddon_T_Thunderbird
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Ok, you're entitled to your own opinion of course, and I know nothing about the Blues trail. Is it meant to honor black blues musicians only?

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oblongo
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Sweet! Very well deserved.
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John_WIlliamson
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quote:
Originally posted by Armageddon_T_Thunderbird:
Ok, you're entitled to your own opinion of course, and I know nothing about the Blues trail. Is it meant to honor black blues musicians only?

I just looked up the (incomplete) list of markets along the trail on Wikipedia. Mainly black musicians but not exclusive. Elvis is in there (he liked underage girls so I'm not sure if the original poster has any problem with him being here).


I'm looking through the list and I do think Skynyrd are the odd men out to be out, musically.

[ 07-01-2019, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: John_WIlliamson ]

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PsychoSem
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Maybe they can honor Curtis Lowe on LS's behalf.

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the bear
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quote:
Originally posted by K. Fabian McClinch:
I don't really care what WWe does with/about the Freebirds. That's a different issue.

Okay, the guys died tragically. I get that. If their fans want to commemorate them, they have that right. But no way in hell should this band be honored in this way, in the name of the music created and lived by Black folks under the lash (literally) of the very people whom that flag represents.



admittedly I'm an outsider, but back then there was not the same backlash or even connotations with the flag (at least the connotation was there but it wasn't meant that way if that makes sense)

You can't judge the past by the standards of today

 -

 -

there was little to zero backlash at the time

Ali was a confirmed racist for a period, should he be airbrushed from history too?

What about John Wayne?

[ 07-02-2019, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: the bear ]

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oblongo
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Looks like Ike Turner has a marker on the trail. For his contribution to music, he absolutely deserves it, but if we start judging these people by anything other than their music...
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Crimson Mask from FL
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They're not a f*cking blues band, first off. Second, what McClinch said. This would be like putting Leni Riefenstahl memorial on the Israeli Cinema Trail. Not that some of you, and I could predict which ones, would see anything wrong with that, either. Third, sorry but this is obviously political and has to move.

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oblongo
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Got me listening to Skynyrd again for the first time in a while. Thanks OP.

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K. Fabian McClinch
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'Tain't about their being white -- White musicians who've legitimately contributed to the living blues heritage deserve to be honored on the Blues Trail -- it's about that friggin' flag.

And the Ike Turner reference is a goal-post move -- Ike's PRIVATE life, as tawdry as it may have been, is not analogous to Skynyrd's PUBLIC display of that blood-drenched icon.

No one is "airbrushing them from history" -- I'm simply saying they don't merit a place of honor alongside those who suffered and often died at the hands of the very people for whom that flag was a badge of identity and power.

[ 07-02-2019, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: K. Fabian McClinch ]

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Crimson Mask from FL
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I see usual suspects are up to their usual smarmy passive-aggressive douchebaggery.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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quote:
Originally posted by the bear:
quote:
Originally posted by K. Fabian McClinch:
I don't really care what WWe does with/about the Freebirds. That's a different issue.

Okay, the guys died tragically. I get that. If their fans want to commemorate them, they have that right. But no way in hell should this band be honored in this way, in the name of the music created and lived by Black folks under the lash (literally) of the very people whom that flag represents.



admittedly I'm an outsider, but back then there was not the same backlash or even connotations with the flag (at least the connotation was there but it wasn't meant that way if that makes sense)

You can't judge the past by the standards of today

 -

 -

there was little to zero backlash at the time

Go ask American black people about that.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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Here's a question: who runs the Mississippi Blues Trail?

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Crimson Mask from FL
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Oh also btw:

Elvis: from Mississippi
Ike Turner: from Mississippi
Skynyrd: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Crimson Mask from FL
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Hey why not put KISS in too.

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oblongo
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I know a lot of people rag on the post-crash band, but I think for the first several year, when they still have pretty much all the surviving members, they were still darn good.


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K. Fabian McClinch
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
Here's a question: who runs the Mississippi Blues Trail?

Mississippi Blues Trail was originally founded by the Mississippi Blues Commission, described as "a body of eighteen appointed Commissioners representing major organizations and geographic/political regions supporting Blues initiatives throughout the state. . . . chaired by an appointee of the Governor."

So it's part of the state's "blues tourism" business, but its advisory board has consisted of knowledgeable blues historians and aficionados. I asked one of 'em what the situation was here -- he said that the band's representatives made a request for this recognition, then jumped the gun and told the world they'd gotten it before it was actually approved (good legwork, journalists!!)

He also said that he and his fellow board members advised against it, suggesting instead that the state could place a historical marker at the crash site. But now that the governor is behind this, it's probably gonna go through. It's now being sold "not [as] a hagiography but a platform for discussion about southern rock and rock-blues."

Which is a worthwhile idea, but pretty different from (and conveniently ignoring!) the Confederate flag situation, as far as I'm concerned . . . but I guess that's how they're playing it.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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So it's another case of the complexion to get the connection.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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So it's just another Rock and roll Hall of Fame.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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Wasn't Arman Hussian involved with this? Woulda liked to see them try and pull this sh*t when he was alive.

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K. Fabian McClinch
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
So it's just another Rock and roll Hall of Fame.

If it is, that's a recent and very unfortunate development. I have little love for the "blues tourism" industry (don't get me started on the Shack Up Inn!!), but until recently the Blues Trail markers have truly been a legitimate (and edifying) project, well-researched, well-written, and respectfully displayed.

I know Hussein was a blues lover, but unless I'm mistaken he moved to Dallas when he retired, and he became an active participant in the blues scene there. I'm not aware of any involvement with the Mississippi Blues Trail.

[ 07-02-2019, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: K. Fabian McClinch ]

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Magnum GA
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
They're not a f*cking blues band, first off.

Well, Ronnie Van Zant cited as influences The Rolling Stones, Free and a few other bands who cited Mississippi bluesman as influences, so by perfessional wrasslin' logic, they're as much Mississippi bluesmen themselves as Bubba Ray and Devon are brothers... Which makes them, well, a southern rock band who happened to be in a plane crash in Mississippi.

[ 07-03-2019, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Magnum GA ]

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HEN from MS
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quote:
Originally posted by the bear:
You can't judge the past by the standards of today

Can we judge today by the standards of today? Because that symbol is still on the state's flag.

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King Francis
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quote:
Originally posted by HEN from MS:
quote:
Originally posted by the bear:
You can't judge the past by the standards of today

Can we judge today by the standards of today? Because that symbol is still on the state's flag.
but but but.. its part of the heritage.. what do want to do eliminate our history??? I'll leave the rest of the lame ass excuses to others

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When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

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Dragonstone
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quote:
Ali was a confirmed racist for a period, should he be airbrushed from history too?
Ali who? Muhammad Ali? Got a link?
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John_WIlliamson
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quote:
Originally posted by Dragonstone:
quote:
Ali was a confirmed racist for a period, should he be airbrushed from history too?
Ali who? Muhammad Ali? Got a link?
At one stage Ali had some 'interesting' views on the different races and how they cannot get along and shouldn't try. He said that stuff many, many years ago.

I don't have links and I'm paraphrasing but blacka should marry blacks and whites should marry whites, and black women should be killed for getting together with white men.

Some/most of this was in line with the Nation of Islam.

I believe this is what the poster is referring too.

Ali softened his stance completely later in life.

I don't agree with his views but I don't think it's fair to look at them without some context of the time.

[ 07-03-2019, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: John_WIlliamson ]

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diamondmd
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Considering that the Nation of Islam had such beliefs based in response to how black people had been treated (still were and still are), I can understand that a whole lot more than a bunch of redneck druggies waving a flag in full knowledge of what it means. And I'm a RVZ era Skynyrd fan.
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John_WIlliamson
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Of course.
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HEN from MS
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quote:
Originally posted by the bear:
...racist...

I think that word does not mean what I think you think it means.

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oblongo
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quote:
Originally posted by Dragonstone:
quote:
Ali was a confirmed racist for a period, should he be airbrushed from history too?
Ali who? Muhammad Ali? Got a link?
From his 1975 Playboy interview:

quote:
Man, I was in Chicago a couple of months ago and saw a white fella take a black woman into a motel room. He stayed with her two or three hours and then walked out—and a bunch of brothers saw it and didn't even say nothin'. They should have thrown rocks at his car or kicked down the door while he was in there screwing her—do something to let him know you don't like it. How can you be a man when another man can come get your woman or your daughter or your sister—and take her to a room and screw her—and, ******, you don't even protest? But nobody touches our women, white or black. Put a hand on a Muslim sister and you are to die. You may be a white or black man in an elevator with a Muslim sister and if you pat her on the behind, you're supposed to die right there.

Playboy: You're beginning to sound like a carbon copy of a white racist. Let's get it out front: Do you believe that lynching is the answer to interracial sex?

Ali: A black man should be killed if he's messing with a white woman. And white men have always done that. They lynched niggers for even looking at a white woman; they'd call it reckless eyeballing and bring out the rope. Raping, patting, mischief, abusing, showing our women disrespect—a man should die for that. And not just white men—black men, too. We will kill you, and the brothers who don't kill you will get their behinds whipped and probably get killed themselves if they let it happen and don't do nothin' about it. Tell it to the President—he ain't gonna do nothin' about it. Tell it to the FBI: We'll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women. Ain't nobody gonna bother them.

Playboy: And what if a Muslim woman wants to go out with non-Muslim blacks—or white men, for that matter?

Ali: Then she dies. Kill her, too.



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The Fake J.D. McKay
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
Wasn't Arman Hussian involved with this? Woulda liked to see them try and pull this sh*t when he was alive.

Your opinion of Hussian’s influence is appreciated, and he was very influential in the grass roots of blues music, but he had zero influence with government. He had disdain for politicians. And this is now a white politician issue.
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diamondmd
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Arman had his photo taken with Alabama Gov. George Wallace in the early 70s. Plowboy Frazier, a well-known racist, was also in the photo. The business made for strange bedfellows.
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dthcm
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quote:
Originally posted by oblongo:
quote:
Originally posted by Dragonstone:
quote:
Ali was a confirmed racist for a period, should he be airbrushed from history too?
Ali who? Muhammad Ali? Got a link?
From his 1975 Playboy interview:

quote:
Man, I was in Chicago a couple of months ago and saw a white fella take a black woman into a motel room. He stayed with her two or three hours and then walked out—and a bunch of brothers saw it and didn't even say nothin'. They should have thrown rocks at his car or kicked down the door while he was in there screwing her—do something to let him know you don't like it. How can you be a man when another man can come get your woman or your daughter or your sister—and take her to a room and screw her—and, ******, you don't even protest? But nobody touches our women, white or black. Put a hand on a Muslim sister and you are to die. You may be a white or black man in an elevator with a Muslim sister and if you pat her on the behind, you're supposed to die right there.

Playboy: You're beginning to sound like a carbon copy of a white racist. Let's get it out front: Do you believe that lynching is the answer to interracial sex?

Ali: A black man should be killed if he's messing with a white woman. And white men have always done that. They lynched niggers for even looking at a white woman; they'd call it reckless eyeballing and bring out the rope. Raping, patting, mischief, abusing, showing our women disrespect—a man should die for that. And not just white men—black men, too. We will kill you, and the brothers who don't kill you will get their behinds whipped and probably get killed themselves if they let it happen and don't do nothin' about it. Tell it to the President—he ain't gonna do nothin' about it. Tell it to the FBI: We'll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women. Ain't nobody gonna bother them.

Playboy: And what if a Muslim woman wants to go out with non-Muslim blacks—or white men, for that matter?

Ali: Then she dies. Kill her, too.



Yeah, Raping and abusing deserve harsh penalties but other than that it's really messed up in a lot of ways. Not just racism.

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oblongo
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quote:
Originally posted by dthcm:
quote:
Originally posted by oblongo:
quote:
Originally posted by Dragonstone:
quote:
Ali was a confirmed racist for a period, should he be airbrushed from history too?
Ali who? Muhammad Ali? Got a link?
From his 1975 Playboy interview:

quote:
Man, I was in Chicago a couple of months ago and saw a white fella take a black woman into a motel room. He stayed with her two or three hours and then walked out—and a bunch of brothers saw it and didn't even say nothin'. They should have thrown rocks at his car or kicked down the door while he was in there screwing her—do something to let him know you don't like it. How can you be a man when another man can come get your woman or your daughter or your sister—and take her to a room and screw her—and, ******, you don't even protest? But nobody touches our women, white or black. Put a hand on a Muslim sister and you are to die. You may be a white or black man in an elevator with a Muslim sister and if you pat her on the behind, you're supposed to die right there.

Playboy: You're beginning to sound like a carbon copy of a white racist. Let's get it out front: Do you believe that lynching is the answer to interracial sex?

Ali: A black man should be killed if he's messing with a white woman. And white men have always done that. They lynched niggers for even looking at a white woman; they'd call it reckless eyeballing and bring out the rope. Raping, patting, mischief, abusing, showing our women disrespect—a man should die for that. And not just white men—black men, too. We will kill you, and the brothers who don't kill you will get their behinds whipped and probably get killed themselves if they let it happen and don't do nothin' about it. Tell it to the President—he ain't gonna do nothin' about it. Tell it to the FBI: We'll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women. Ain't nobody gonna bother them.

Playboy: And what if a Muslim woman wants to go out with non-Muslim blacks—or white men, for that matter?

Ali: Then she dies. Kill her, too.



Yeah, Raping and abusing deserve harsh penalties but other than that it's really messed up in a lot of ways. Not just racism.
That's just the most infamous part of the interview. But it is absolutely full of "Did he really say that?" stuff. He certainly wasn't going to get any awards from the National Organization for Women after that.
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K. Fabian McClinch
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Even the State of Illinois seems to be getting it right . . .

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/452240-illinois-governor-cancels-band-appearance-at-state-fair-over-use-of

. . . and ol' Charlie Daniels speaketh with fork'ed tongue about "fascism" -- I have it on pretty good authority from a person who lived in the Nashville area in the 1970s that he was a rather notorious racist even then, calling into talk shows and spewing venom, etc.

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Crimson Mask from FL
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What the f*** does Ali have to do with this, is somebody proposing giving him a plaque in a soccer hall of fame or something?

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diamondmd
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quote:
Originally posted by Crimson Mask from FL:
What the f*** does Ali have to do with this, is somebody proposing giving him a plaque in a soccer hall of fame or something?

You know it's oblongo's civic duty to dig up something bad about a non-white person whenever a white person fvcks up.
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