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Author Topic: Brexit
Bcleah
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Seven days early!

But seriously, the UK is looking for a new Prime Minister.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48379730

So is the world ready for a buffoon who at times makes Trump look sane? Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (Boris Johnson) is favourite to succeed, although it should be noted a favourite for the Tory leadership has not succeeded in a race since Ted Heath in the mid 60s.

You may know Boris as the Foreign Secretary who once talked Tehran into extending a sentence on a British citizen, while trying to negotiate their release, or you may know him as the London mayor who get stuck on a zipline:



Or taking out a child in a game of touch Rugby:



Great!

[ 08-29-2019, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Dirko
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Textbook psychopath.

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"Evil is just a measure of how much YOUR choices take away other people's."
(Simon Spurrier)

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Crimson Mask from FL
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I would have thought that was tRump, if tRump wasn't too fat to run.

I'm not joking.

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So long from the Sunshine State!

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John_WIlliamson
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Boris Johnson is a **** too though.
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Travlr
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I feel a little bit for May; after all, she voted against Brexit, and yet found herself in the leadership position to try and push it through. But that's as far as it goes: She showed the world that she didn't have the ability to go with the position and failed repeatedly to get anywhere close to the finish line that she had promised to head toward.

That said, at least she knew her race was finished and is trying to get off the road for whomever is now coming up to replace her, although I think she probably saw the end for herself weeks ago, and has just been trying to put something down with at least the consistency of wet clay for someone -- anyone -- to try to build upon.

Another example, frankly, of The Peter Principle. Wouldn't you say?

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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Bcleah
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
I feel a little bit for May

From the Brexit party all the way through to the real socialist parties, that is the one thing we have in common in the UK, no one has any sympathy for May. She is after the first draft of history, the worse Prime Minister the UK has known.

She had one task and has failed, and due to that incompetence the UK has gone nearly six months without a fully functioning government, in the longest Parliament for over 350 years.

[ 05-25-2019, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Happ Hazzard
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My favourite quote regarding Theresa May's term as PM:


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Bcleah
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Things just got interesting for Boris Johnson, he will almost certainly have a criminal trial for 'misconduct in Public office' in relation to statements he made as London Mayor concerning monies the UK government gave to the European Union.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

Misconduct in public office can lead to life imprisonment if proven. That though is a long way down the road, and on the face of it an unlikely punishment even if he is found guilty. But the trial is likely to happen as it is thought the crown prosecution service will not want to interfere with the case.

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diamondmd
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quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
Things just got interesting for Boris Johnson, he will almost certainly have a criminal trial for 'misconduct in Public office' in relation to statements he made as London Mayor concerning monies the UK government gave to the European Union.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

Misconduct in public office can lead to life imprisonment if proven. That though is a long way down the road, and on the face of it an unlikely punishment even if he is found guilty. But the trial is likely to happen as it is thought the crown prosecution service will not want to interfere with the case.

Imagine that. A government that holds its officials responsible and doesn't run blocker. Which country claims it is the greatest in the world again?
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Dirko
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quote:
Originally posted by diamondmd:
quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
Things just got interesting for Boris Johnson, he will almost certainly have a criminal trial for 'misconduct in Public office' in relation to statements he made as London Mayor concerning monies the UK government gave to the European Union.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

Misconduct in public office can lead to life imprisonment if proven. That though is a long way down the road, and on the face of it an unlikely punishment even if he is found guilty. But the trial is likely to happen as it is thought the crown prosecution service will not want to interfere with the case.

Imagine that. A government that holds its officials responsible and doesn't run blocker. Which country claims it is the greatest in the world again?
Many do, but most countries are not as obviously wrong as others.

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"Evil is just a measure of how much YOUR choices take away other people's."
(Simon Spurrier)

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Bcleah
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Tom Walker's Jonathan Pie sums up the current existential crisis that the UK is going through in connection with Brexit. Warning, bad language.



[ 08-12-2019, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Travlr
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I've been enjoying "Pie's" stuff for a while now -- haven't heard such dead-on rants that take on everybody, their dogs and their dead uncles since Dennis Miller was on the top of his game in the 90s.

And it doesn't even matter if you agree or not; sometimes a good rant is its own reward....

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The Traveller
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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Mr. Parts Unknown
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I still say THIS sums up the whole Brexit as well as any explanation I've heard. I'm thinking the Brexit faction believes that "our work here is done."



[ 08-13-2019, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Parts Unknown ]

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Bcleah
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The political class in the UK, just experienced one hell of an earthquake today, as Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced the Queen was proroguing (suspending) Parliament for five weeks come the middle of September.

It has been pointed out this would go a very long way to stopping MPs from stopping Johnson from leaving the EU without a deal, but Johnson denies this:

For a more nuanced account of today's events, here is Jonathan Pie (warning, a lot of bad language):


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King Francis
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there are many things I love about the United Kingston.. [Wink]

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When I said that was the most ignorant thing I ever heard, I didn't realize you were still talking.

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Travlr
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Harper did that up here (proroguing Parliament) when his government was about to face a vote of non-confidence, with the other 3 Parties in accord to bring him down. It worked for him since he got his majority gov't the next election...and was promptly fired by the voters next chance they had.

Proroguing Parliament is a very dangerous act, and one that often backfires in the long run (the number of times the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have done it can probably be counted on the fingers of a single hand). Like Harper's use, this is being seen as a confirmation that he doesn't have the votes to push through what he wants, so he's just going to evade the whole problem by playing a waiting game that has a very real end-date that he can make sure works in his favour.

And there's a goodly number of Conservative MPs who aren't very happy with Boris over this, either!

And some MPs have an alternative in mind....one which just might work, given the UK's "Constitution"....

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The Traveller
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"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Bcleah
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:


And there's a goodly number of Conservative MPs who aren't very happy with Boris over this, either!

And some MPs have an alternative in mind....one which just might work, given the UK's "Constitution"....

This scenario, although more likely than yesterday is still very unlikely at the moment, but maybe a last resort come the middle/late October.

The problem is Corbyn has rightly made it clear that as the leader of the main opposition he should front a temporary coalition government. But there is, for the moment, not enough support from other opposition and rebel Tory MPs for that. The alternative, a coalition government fronted by a grandee MP has been put forward by the Liberals and rebel Tories, but this, for the moment again, would not get the backing of Labour.

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Mr. Parts Unknown
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So THIS just happened.

https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/boris-johnson-brexit-parliament-tuesday-dle-gbr-intl/index.html

I THINK I'm following this, but if if someone over in the UK can bring this Yank up to speed to make sure he's got it correctly, he would definitely appreciate it.

In any event, it sounds like there is now a majority to pass a bill blocking a no-deal Brexit by the Oct. 31 deadline, and it sounds like the vote on that bill is supposed to take place tomorrow. Assuming that happens, ol' BJ will likely call for a new election, gambling that he will get a more no deal-friendly majority in the next parliament.

Have I got this right? And what's the sense over there about his chances for the latter in the new election?

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

[ 09-03-2019, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Parts Unknown ]

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Travlr
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Johnson DID call an election....or rather, he TRIED to, because Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn won't support new elections until the Brexit delay is passed. Johnson needs a majority vote to get the election underway, but with MP Phillip Lee crossing the aisle to sit with the Opposition earlier today, Johnson lost his majority.

Lee crossed the aisle in the middle of Boris' speech, which caused a bit of commotion, too!

Part of the excitement was the lawmakers voting to take control of Parliament away from the government, which, according to the NYT's report, gave themselves the authority to pass legislation that would stop Johnson from his threat of a no-deal Brexit.

The vote was 328 to 301, which was what caused Johnson to call for a new election....which the new majority leader (Corbyn for the moment, I guess) nixed.

To make things worse for Johnson, he was jeered, heckled and laughed at all day long by the MPs.

For all the abuse heaped upon May for her stumbles, Johnson just did a face-first prat-fall at what should have been his greatest moment.



....wonder if he has a Twitter account......


EDIT: I understand the basic workings of the UK Parliament, since my own here in Canukistan is based so strongly off it, but there are nuances that only our Brit/Scot/Welsh/Irish posters will be able to properly explain.

[ 09-03-2019, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: Travlr ]

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The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Mr. Parts Unknown
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:


EDIT: I understand the basic workings of the UK Parliament, since my own here in Canukistan is based so strongly off it, but there are nuances that only our Brit/Scot/Welsh/Irish posters will be able to properly explain.

Almost certainly, but you've given me a good general first look. Thanks. I look forward to our UK friends providing more specifics and nuances.

Got to hand it to those 20-odd Tory MPs who had the intestinal fortitude to break from BJ. More than I can say for the bulk of our GOP congress critters. County over party? What a concept.

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Bcleah
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I will try with an initial brief overview and then briefly, the politics.

Yesterday (3/9) Oliver Letwin a former Tory minister put forward a Standing Order (SO) 24 to put forward a bill to delay Brexit if a deal is not reached by October 19, to debated today (4/9).

A SO24 is a device in the Commons that takes control of the agenda for the work the Commons does in a particular day, in this case 4/9.

This had to be a first step as the Commons agenda is controlled by the government. This is very rarely achieved as a you need the Speaker on side to let you put forward the SO24 (and the Speaker is a lot more neutral than the Speakers in the American houses), and you also need a majority of MPs to back the SO24, which clearly is not a benefit to the government, and as the government normally has a majority it is seemingly unlikely to work.

So this was achieved last night and today (4/9) the bill is being heard and as a write is due to be voted on.

If the bill goes through, it needs to then go through the House of Lords. This maybe more tricky as the Lords does have the filibuster available and thus could talk down the bill. Indeed there are already nearly a 100 amendments on the timetable for the bill put forward by the Lords, and in theory each needs to be voted on, with each vote (division) taking around 30 mins.

But there are more pro stayers than leavers in the Lords and if need be it seems the Lords will just sit through the night (or nights) to get the bill through, as, as long the session continues it is still Wednesday 4th September 2019 in the Lords, no matter the actual date. And thus the suspension of the Houses of Parliament next week, will not affect it.

And now for the politics:

If the bill gets through the Commons, then Boris Johnson (Prime Minister) has said he will put in an application for a general election. This application requires two thirds of MPs to agree to it.

This is unlikely to happen because:

A) Johnson now has a minority government, 15 short of a majority as he stripped the whip of all 21 Tory MPs who voted for the SO24 yesterday. These MPs include two former Chancellors of the Exchequers, the Grandson of Winston Churchill and number of other former senior minsters.

B) The coalition opposition of Scottish Nationalists, Liberals, Greens and the Labour party as well as the 21 former Tories, known collectively as the "Rebel Alliance" will also not back the application as they want safeguards to make sure Johnson does not change the date of the General Election, which he can, once the Parliament is dissolved and candidates are canvassing for support to become an MP (once Parliament is dissolved there are no MPs until the election result).

[ 09-04-2019, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Bcleah
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And the second reading of the bill has gone through by 329 votes to 300, so this means a further Tory voted against the Government.

The third reading should be a formality...

[ 09-04-2019, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Bcleah
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And Mr Pie's take (warning the c word is quite common in the UK)




The "Sinister Middle Aged Rent Boy":


 -

And for cultural reference and it always makes me chuckle, the Mitchell and Webb sketch "Are we the baddies?" mentioned:




[ 09-05-2019, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Bcleah
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The third reading went through 327-299.

But an amendment was made. Which means if a delay goes through, there cannot be another referendum in this time period.

This was done by government, who did not produce counters (tellers) for the vote on the amendment and thus the amendment went through by 'accident'...

[ 09-04-2019, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Bcleah
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Boris finally won a vote! But did not receive the two thirds majority needed to call an election. So he will have to go down another route...

He might put forward a bill where a simply majority is required. But again he has not the votes to do that without members of the 'Rebel Alliance' backing him.

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Mr. Parts Unknown
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quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
Boris finally won a vote! But did not receive the two thirds majority needed to call an election. So he will have to go down another route...

He might put forward a bill where a simply majority is required. But again he has not the votes to do that without members of the 'Rebel Alliance' backing him.

"Rebel Alliance". Hee, hee, hee. [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
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Travlr
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I don't think a political satirist like Pie has had so much material to work from since Mort Sahl started pinging off the Kennedys (and they were his friends, remember).

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The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Bcleah
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The latest speculation is that the Tories and Corbyn have agreed that the bill will get through the Lords by Friday afternoon, get royal assent on Monday and then Labour will agree to an election.

But this will possibly split the Labour party as a lot of MPs want Corbyn to wait until after October 19 to call the election so Johnson would have to break his promise of a "Brexit on October 31st do or die".

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Bcleah
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And to add to Boris' woes, his brother Jo, has quit as minister and as a MP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49594793

[ 09-05-2019, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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K. Fabian McClinch
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
I don't think a political satirist like Pie has had so much material to work from since Mort Sahl started pinging off the Kennedys (and they were his friends, remember).

Well . . .


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"Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Four shots ripped into my groin, and I was off on one of the strangest adventures of my life." (Max Shulman)

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Mr. Parts Unknown
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quote:
Originally posted by K. Fabian McClinch:
quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
I don't think a political satirist like Pie has had so much material to work from since Mort Sahl started pinging off the Kennedys (and they were his friends, remember).

Well . . .

"Well this is a very significant result. Luton, normally a very sensible constituency with a high proportion of people who aren't a bit silly, has gone completely ga-ga."
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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
And to add to Boris' woes, his brother Jo, has quit as minister and as a MP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49594793

He may be the first Pol to retire in order to spend LESS time with his family....

--------------------
The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Bcleah
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
And to add to Boris' woes, his brother Jo, has quit as minister and as a MP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49594793

He may be the first Pol to retire in order to spend LESS time with his family....
A saucer of milk for Travlr... [Wink]

[ 09-06-2019, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Travlr
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quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
And to add to Boris' woes, his brother Jo, has quit as minister and as a MP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49594793

He may be the first Pol to retire in order to spend LESS time with his family....
A saucer of milk for Travlr... [Wink]
With or without the six-pack of mice....?

--------------------
The Traveller
a fan since '68....

"Reputation is what others think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same.... Guard your honor; let your reputation fall where it may."

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Bcleah
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quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
quote:
Originally posted by Travlr:
quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
And to add to Boris' woes, his brother Jo, has quit as minister and as a MP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49594793

He may be the first Pol to retire in order to spend LESS time with his family....
A saucer of milk for Travlr... [Wink]
With or without the six-pack of mice....?
As we are one way or another going to have an election soon, I promise you a six-pack of mice...

[ 09-07-2019, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Mr. Parts Unknown
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Looks like the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow is stepping down. Or more specifically, I believe the correct term is "standing down." Exactly when depends on the results of the house vote on new elections.

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/912439c0-627c-4f85-a4ba-14c533a880dd?in=15%3A37%3A30&out=15%3A46%3A00&fbclid=IwAR1f6pqMLWqpkIvSgpLmiatOjEr3XAlvAebwL5WXDKvZRWywH4gwbO2HnUQ

EDIT: A further update from the U.K.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/09/no-deal-brexit-officially-blocked-law-10711993/?fbclid=IwAR1CvSJjrKs6PrCvIsOAmMyCRp0vPN2JP8m8fgf0EsRw3nwCEcl9XNXpdhw

[ 09-09-2019, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Parts Unknown ]

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Bcleah
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Parts Unknown:
Looks like the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow is stepping down. Or more specifically, I believe the correct term is "standing down." Exactly when depends on the results of the house vote on new elections.


You taking the michael out of our Speaker's lack of height?! [Mad]

You really are an "incorrigible delinquent" stooping so low, for such a small target!


But yes it is actually disappointing to see him go. A good redemption story, he came into Parliament so far to the right, Breitbart would have told him to tone it down a bit.

[ 09-09-2019, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Bcleah ]

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Mr. Parts Unknown
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quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Parts Unknown:
Looks like the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow is stepping down. Or more specifically, I believe the correct term is "standing down." Exactly when depends on the results of the house vote on new elections.


You taking the michael out of our Speaker's lack of height?! [Mad]

You really are an "incorrigible delinquent" stooping so low, for such a small target!


But yes it is actually disappointing to see him go. A good redemption story, he came into Parliament so far to the right, Breitbart would have told him to tone it down a bit.

I resent the right honorable gentleman's insinuation!!!!!

OK, maybe not, but I am confused. Did I use some sort of term that referred to the Speaker's height? If so, please excuse this Yank for his faux pas (and please educate me on the lingo).

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Bcleah
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Parts Unknown:
quote:
Originally posted by Bcleah:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Parts Unknown:
Looks like the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow is stepping down. Or more specifically, I believe the correct term is "standing down." Exactly when depends on the results of the house vote on new elections.


You taking the michael out of our Speaker's lack of height?! [Mad]

You really are an "incorrigible delinquent" stooping so low, for such a small target!


But yes it is actually disappointing to see him go. A good redemption story, he came into Parliament so far to the right, Breitbart would have told him to tone it down a bit.

I resent the right honorable gentleman's insinuation!!!!!

OK, maybe not, but I am confused. Did I use some sort of term that referred to the Speaker's height? If so, please excuse this Yank for his faux pas (and please educate me on the lingo).

No, you used all the right terms. It is just known that Bercow is a bit of a diva, and sensitive to his lack of stature. So for him to stepping/standing down could be construed as a back handed dig.
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Bcleah
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Boris lost his second attempt to call an election and is now standing at 0 and 6 in votes in the commons since becoming PM.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49630094

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