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Author Topic: THE ANNOTATED FALL GUYS
Steve Yohe
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This seems to be known, so I'm going to announce a new book:

THE ANNOTATED FALL GUYS By Marcus Griffin ...Annotated and Edited by Scott Teal and Steve Yohe

It's a project that was started 8 years ago. Before the Lewis book. The original plan was for all the historians to make comments, but I & Luce were the only ones to write anything. So the idea kind of dissolved. At times, we would talk about it but it was only about a month ago that Scott got into it & so he talked me into starting it up again. My first shot was just correcting Griffin's errors & pointing out his bias. This time I'm writing the history, because the book is such a mess time wise. Scott, after retiring, got into doing research, and we both thought it was an important project.

I'm on the last ten pages. Then Scott will edited and fix it up to look good. We are going to add photos & stuff.

Should be out eary next year.---Steve Yohe

[ 11-10-2018, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Steve Yohe ]

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mikeyosmond
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I look forward to it.
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DaClyde
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That sounds awesome, I can't wait!

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-JasonP

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defensor
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nice. Fall Guys: Barnums of Bounce is so important as is. Thank you.
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Steve Ogilvie
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Excellent news, lately that book has become an easy reference for people too lazy to dig into the wrestling world of that era.

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"Mr 100%"

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BERT from NJ
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Thanks Steve (and Scott!) this is needed! Steve, I actually printed out one of your posts with corrections to the book, and folded it into my copy years ago!

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"Kneel before Zod"
General Zod

"You're a little out of order yourself-You insulted him a little bit, you insulted him A LITTLE BIT"
Jimmy the Gent Conway

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke

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Steve Yohe
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Scott is finishing up the cover & the back of the book. Should be out soon.---Yohe
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DaClyde
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I am looking forward to the finished product, and also hoping that it might drive some interest in similar projects or even a later "revised" annotation down the road if more information is uncovered.

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-JasonP

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Steve Yohe
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Scott Teal took 15 of these books to sell at the CAC dinner, & they sold out in short time...like 20 minutes.--Yohe
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DaClyde
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Not sure how many he brought of everything, But he sold out of 3 of his 4 new books. Annotated Fall Guys went FAST. People were asking about it all week.

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-JasonP

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Steve Yohe
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I bought a copy of ALABAMA:1931 to 1935 by Jason Presley. Really great.---Yohe
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DaClyde
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Yohe:
I bought a copy of ALABAMA:1931 to 1935 by Jason Presley. Really great.---Yohe

Feedback appreciated as I work on 1936-1940. Mainly I just hope I have more usable photos to work with in the next book. It is a real challenge to find clean photos of 1930s light heavyweights!

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-JasonP

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defensor
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Wait?! Its out? I must have missed that. Is there a link to purchase?
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DaClyde
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Just got added at CrowbarPress.com this afternoon.

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-JasonP

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Steve Yohe
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I've been playing around with the ALABAMA:1931-1935 book for two days. I really like it. It's a result book, with a lot of interesting features. For the subject, I really like the cover. Creates the proper mood for the book. It's also the story of Chris Jordan & the lighter weight guys. The layout is very good, but I guess that's Scott's work. Jason Presley has proven himself to be a major historical writer and researcher. Has the Yohe stamp of approval.--Steve Yohe

[ 05-06-2019, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Steve Yohe ]

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defensor
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quote:
Originally posted by DaClyde:
Just got added at CrowbarPress.com this afternoon.

Thanks and bought. Happy Mothers day? to me.
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BERT from NJ
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Just ordered mine too! Looking forward to it.

Steve Yohe, did you ever read Paul Boesch's book? It was written in kayfabe, but easy enough to read between the lines if you know the history. In fact there seemed to be many parts of it that were incorporated into "Whatever Happened to Gorgeous George?" Along with Fall Guys and Hooker, the Boesch book provided alot of insight into behind the scenes wrestling from the early days through the territorial era for me.

--------------------
"Kneel before Zod"
General Zod

"You're a little out of order yourself-You insulted him a little bit, you insulted him A LITTLE BIT"
Jimmy the Gent Conway

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke

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Steve Yohe
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Yeah I 've have it.--Yohe
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Skullbutt
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Jim Cornette on Twitter:

Everyone should get a copy of the Fall Guys from @CrowbarPress ! THE quality reissue of this book!

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Steve Yohe
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The book seems to be selling well. Scott has soldout the first bunch & has had the printing company make up a 100 new books. Seems Cornette sold a lot of books. Of all the insiders, Jim ranks with the smartest minds. To me, his comments always seem right on. --- Steve Yohe
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Steve Ogilvie
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I better get myself a copy quick smart then

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"Mr 100%"

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DaClyde
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Maybe there's still time to add my annotation questioning Griffin's assertion that Chief Chewchki/Chewacki was from Poland.

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-JasonP

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Steve Yohe
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He can print copies at any time, so Teal isn't going to run out. I haven't looked, but I heard it was going on amazon at $23. If you get it from Scott, it cost $20.--Yohe
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Steve Yohe
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Scott just sent me a message. He sold all of the 100 books he printed & is getting 200 more made up. He says it's the fastest selling book his had since his MSG book.---Yohe
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Steve Johnson
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Just got this, am familiar with the original but Steve Yohe going over something guarantees historical accuracy. Looking forward to this.
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Ken Viewer
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Yohe, if you have a decent split of the revenue-stream, I hope you copy the the second page of the book -- the page where your name and Scott's appear; then autograph the copies, and send them back to Scott for gluing into what can be sold as an autographed version of the book.

Then sell those for a $5 or $10 premium; heck, were I a collector, I'd want an autographed version.

NOT KIDDING.

Ken

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Steve Yohe
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No
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Steve Yohe
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I know some books have been sold, but I haven't seen anyone review it yet. I'd be interested in what people thought about it. I always thought people would be upset with me fooling with the memory of their favorite book.

It originally was a Teal project that started around 2010 or so. It was going to be a book involving most of the wrestling historians, but no one wanted to mess with Griffin's work.... and only me and Don Luce were willing to stick our necks out. Luce sent in a few lines, but I sent in a lot & spent time on it. With no one really interest, Teal pushed it back.....but he always said he had plans for it down the line.

I've always been willing to take on the book. A major reason for writing the Lewis book, was to counter FALL GUYS version of wrestling history. I've always been upset with the treatment of Jim Londos. And the fact that the errors have carried on in other books & projects.

Scott retired a couple of years ago, and really doubled down on wrestling and doing research. He developed ideas about FALL GUYS & wanted to go back to it. So he came back to me about it late last year. I was playing with my "Time-Line project" (which will probably never be finished) & I felt I had my say about FALL GUYS over the years & didn't want to mess with it again.

But Scott kissed up to me, and I respect & consider him a friend. I went back & forth with the idea. He said it couldn't be done without me. I told him he could use what I wrote in 2010(?) & he should do his own version. I remember all the crap I went thru with the Lewis book....and that didn't reward my ego or my bank account. It was no fun at all. (Try it & see.)

Scott mentions all of this in the book, he had to work on me to do this, but I finally agreed to rewite everything I had done, and I'd sent that to him. I didn't want to write this as a team, and have someone playing with what I wrote. I know it would need editing for spelling & grammar, but my opinions & mood... I wanted untouched. I wanted each of us to have our own section so the reader could tell who was saying what.

Scott didn't agree....he wanted everything added together. I thought about it, I felt it was an important project & I had to have some input. So I agreed to write my stuff & send it in. I would also send some photos, but Scott collects photos so he didn't need my help. He was then going to edit, add what he wanted, design it, and publish it. It was then his book. I kind of refused to be involved in the editing.

I also said I wouldn't read the finished book. There have been a number of books over the years that have quoted me to prove a point. As soon as I see someone using my stuff, I stop reading it. It upsets me....and I don't need to get upset over something I have no control over.

In the beginning I thought both of us agreed on Marcus Griffin. I though badly of him because he slimed Jim Londos' reputation thru the years & was bias in the promotion of Mondt, & Lewis. I wasn't going to pretend I had respected for Griffin as a writer or as a person. Scott agreed with all of that.

Later in the design of the book, he sent messages asking for facts & dates....because he didn't want be seen as playing the same tricks as Griffin. I didn't see the reason. Some of the major disagreements covered long periods of time (like the Lewis title reigns (1921 to 1925) being a golden period money wise in wrestling history). To prove or disprove, without out any doubt, that would take a huge number of results and space. I'm doing that every thing with my time-line project....I'm not going to attempt that with a FALL GUYS book. My idea was that Griffin had his theory's (& that's all they were...he was not there for those events)...and I had mine. I explain my reasons for my ideas. It's up to the reader to pick who they believe or not. Let them figure it out.

My fear was that Scott was going to be polite & take the bite out of what I wrote. Maybe I have too high of a opinion of myself.

After Scott finish the book, I got two copies. It sat around a few days. It looked good & the design is always good with Scott. Then I read a little & looked thru it....mainly the stuff Scott added. Most of the newspaper clips are his. I was happier with his stuff than mine....so I stopped reading it & haven't gone back to it. It seemed Ok.

On page 19 there was some thing that pissed me off. I was dumping on Muldoon & Scott had me (or us) saying that Clarence Whisler was "a man of great character". That was part of a minor joke I thru in. I said something like Whisler was another man of great character who died from eating glass in Australia while showing off. Scott didn't get the joke & shorten it. Teal later said he was sorry.

Ken complained about the size of the print & how some people have trouble reading it. I would have liked a 8 x 10 book with large photos. One of the problems of doing a book like this is making people think it's important. My thinking was that a larger book would have been more impressive to readers. I mentioned this to Scott. He said "let them get glasses". It's his book & he has good reasons for how he designed it. He is the guy who will lose money if things don't go right.

I feel for Scott Teal or anyone who has to work with me. I'm at the point were I do what I do & that's all. Maybe I've always been that way. I'm kind of a dick. I would like to see any reviews....for some reason.---Steve Yohe

[ 07-19-2019, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Steve Yohe ]

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Tim Hornbaker
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Steve was kind enough to send me a copy of this book, and I am very appreciative. A few weeks ago, I flipped through it, but was unable to give it more time due to other obligations. This weekend, I've been reading through it and want to say that for anyone interested in wrestling history, this book is a must. Clearing up inconsistencies and errors in "Fall Guys" is a particular necessity for historians and fans. And with Steve Yohe offering his valuable perspective, this is an important work in all respects. Scott Teal is a tireless wrestling historian, pumping out incredible books one after another, and the combination of these two guys, gives us another gem for the bookshelf.

Here are some things I'm noticing from the book. The research is meticulous. The layout and font are fine, and the photos/clips are an enjoyable addition.

The style and narrative is interesting. As a wrestling historian, I too have formed my own conclusions about certain people and events based on my research. With that said, I might have taken a different approach with regard to some things. But that is what makes a book like this so important. We are getting Steve and Scott's historical point of view. If there are aspects left to discuss and/or debate, it could inspire a lot of healthy discussion. And what's more important to wrestling history than breaking down the merits of Londos, Lewis, Toots, and even Griffin himself?

This is a definitive work. It is a serious, well-done book and I highly recommend it. There is room for more discussion and dissection going forward, and I'm sure great minds like Steve and Scott will be at the forefront of those conversations.

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Ken Viewer
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I received a copy of the book courtesy of Mr. Yohe, several weeks ago, and eagerly look forward to reading the annotations. If Yohe writes it, I'll read it, whatever its subject and whenever he makes it available.

But the type is way too small for me, and I have up-to-date reading glasses and relatively normal eyesight for someone in the fourth quarter-century of his life. I read some of the annotations using the magnifier the publisher of the Unabridged Oxford English Dictionary provided each purchaser with those volumes, which use microtype because of the vast length of the multi-volume set.

Even with that magnifier, reading the text has been too difficult to complete so-far, as much as I'd like to.

If you've never seen and read a Yohe Press volume then you have missed out on one of the rare treats by a publisher who understands the nature of documenting a visual sport/show and published his books on 8-and-1/2 by 11-inch paper.

The Yohe Record Books are so much more than mere record-books, with full-size photographs and text/images that set the tenor of the times and are their own rare portions of American history, including tangential details that enrich the details of the eras, and thus, enrich the Yohe Press volumes.

As for Scott Teal's comment that those who can't read the tiny type get glasses, well, he's the publisher so he can do what he pleases, and he has published a boatload of major wrestling books. But it reflects a disrespect for Senior Citizens that is unfortunate.

I've been waiting for the weather to be appropriate so I can take the book, the magnifier and some bottled water to the nearest park and read the book in sunlight, which always makes tiny type more visible. This week, weather and weather-predictions have it raining every day, so I will have to wait a bit longer.

But any Yohe new material has always, invariably been worth the wait.

Ken

[ 06-17-2019, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Ken Viewer ]

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DaClyde
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I got to give the book what I assume was one of the final proofreading passes, mostly looking for typos, punctuation and grammar issues. The first thing that struck me was the tone. I was not expecting the open hostility toward Griffin, but I suppose it was justified. So, despite the tremendous amount of research that went into the effort, it is definitely more a popular work, rather than academic.

Those nitpicks aside, when I was reading the book, it was just a draft, with none of the illustrations or photos, and they add a lot to the overall feel of the book. One thing to just read a bunch of names, but it is nice to see the faces to go with them, and adverts for some of the cards being discussed.

Griffin's original work tended to jump around and at times I felt like I was getting lost. The annotations actually help with that, always pointing out when Griffin was straying 10 years into the future or past, and really helped tie the original work together in a way it very much needed. Also of help were the not infrequent times where the annotations helped explain who was being discussed when Griffin would just toss off one of his endless cute nicknames, apparently just assuming everyone reading would know about whom he was talking.

I was hoping to see more source citations, but maybe this edition will spark some conversation leading toward perhaps an even more expanded version later. It is a pity there was not more participation in the earlier attempts to put this together. But even so, this has only taken one of the most important books on wrestling history and made it even more valuable. I'm glad the timing worked out so perfectly that it was released just after Jim Cornette and Dave Meltzer had been talking it up.

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-JasonP

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Steve Yohe
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I got a check from Scott last week. A big check. At this stage of my life, money coming in is a wonderful thing. I'm going to put tires on my Mini-Cooper.

So anyone who writes for Scott Teal, should know they'll be getting their money agreed on. It's a great thing for retired people.---Steve Yohe

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DaClyde
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Glad to hear you're rolling in the dough, it is much deserved!

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-JasonP

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Steve Yohe
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I'm rich!--Yohe
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CrusherBolo
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Every time I found the book listed in a card catalog at some library, it was never there no matter how many different times I looked. Seems like it got "Bundied" a lot. Just ordered it and should have it in a couple of days.
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Steve Yohe
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Someone gave the book a review:

https://fakegeekboy.wordpress.com/2019/07/11/taking-a-note-taking-a-dive/comment-page-1/

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CrusherBolo
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I agree that sometimes the annotations did overpower Griffin's original draft, but it needed to be done, since the mistakes and outright lies are so glaring and so frequent. Getting Yohe and Teal's version makes me very glad that I never came across the book before. It's hard enough to separate fact from fiction in regards to professional wrestling history as it is. Great book and outstanding research by Yohe and Teal.

[ 08-09-2019, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: CrusherBolo ]

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